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MG MGF Technical - My VVC sounds like a diesel


All is not well !

Friday night I drove to Devon from Teddington. Oil temp gauge was moving between 120 up to 140 forcing me to be quite moderate in my driving. Coolant temperature gauge held firm at the standard position. Engine slightly noiser. Checked oil with dipstick and coolant level - everything fine.

Yesterday morning it was suddenly terrbile it really did sound like a diesel tow truck which is ironic because that's how we got home courtesy of the AA who agreed that it was definitely broken beyond their ability to fix.

Before the tow truck came - we checked the following. Spark Plugs, that all the cylinders were firing, the compression which was about 180 on all four and used a stethoscope to listen. AA bloke had not idea what was wrong with it.

Tonight I will risk driving it 4 miles to the dealer.

Any one got any ideas about what is wrong with it ?
C James

dead oil pump? Maybe? Clutching at straws but it seems likely if the oil temp is raising.... and the coolant is fine, then you have an oil circulation problem.

Where is most of the noise coming from? the engine? the exhaust?
jon


Jon,

Thank for the reply. The noise was coming from the engine. Everything else seemed fine.
C James

I don't think I would risk driving it at all. Can't you get the garage to tow it in for you? It is a making a horrible noise then something is badly wrong. Driving it risks making a bad situation worse, particularly with a cold engine.

Sorry to be gloomy but this does not seem the time to take a risk.

Good luck

Patrick
Patrick Beet

Patrick,

Well in an ideal world you're of course right. But I'll have to drive it the three miles to the dealer this afternoon.

Chris
C James

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you!
Patrick Beet

Patrick,

Thanks - if i get there I'll let you know what they reckon it is.
C James

Crikey - I wonder if there is a problem with the VVC mechanism. Unfortunately, the cam bolts are known to cause problems (there was a recall covering this - not sure whether this is relevant to your car or not Chris? Details @ http://www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/MGF_recalls.htm#r2)

Assuming that the unit has not completely failed, then fixing the problem shouldn't prove too expensive. If it does fail - then you could be in the same situation as John with a failed cam belt: needing a new engine! :o(

Let us know how you get on Chris.
Rob Bell


Rob,Patrick and anyone else interested,

I got about 500 metres and it was gameover. AA picked up and took to garage.

Well I had the cam belt changed as part of the service schedule at the last service at the start of the year so if it has failed then I should have some come back.

My gut feeling is that it's "Good Night Vienna" for this little F and it will be time to buy myself "a proper car" Saab or VW.

I've had the head gasket failure and a faulty mems, lots of other little faults and now this. Possibly time to get the towel throwing arm warmed up ?

Chris

P.S.

Last chance to have a bright idea to save this F
C James

Sounds like it could be similar to Paul W.'s car. Not sure what the diagnosis was on it (though I suspect it was thought not worth even looking at), but I believe a new engine's being transplanted in.
Leigh

Possibly an expired oil pump. These can sieze and lead to cam belt failure (this caught Annelise out - see archives).

Could indeed spell the end of your engine Colin. Sorry.

How far can you throw a towel?
Rob Bell

I am really sorry to hear your news. Is the car at Kingsbury by chance?

Cheers

Patrick
Patrick Beet


So, just had the call. The dog is dead. Apparently the " Cam Belt Pulley came loose" anoying because in January i had the cam belt replaced as part of the service schedule. THey say that they dont touch the pulley in the service so it isn;t their fault.

£1700 is the best case scenario from kingsbury. Which means take the head off and fix all the broken bits. However quite possible it is a new engine £3500.

My feeling is dump it.

Anyone with any experience think different
C James

>> Apparently the " Cam Belt Pulley came loose" <<

That's a new one - not heard of that happening before.

Not a problem that should recurr either.

Regarding decision to keep or sell. Personal thing. If you've lost faith in the car, then sell. You are going to loose a lot of money doing this though (who'd want a dead car?).

Keep the car if you enjoy MG ownership and can trust those performing the repair work. You'll not exactly recoup the money spent on repairs - but at least you'll enjoy the results of the efforts expended.

If this happened to me and I were in your shoes, either I'd be planning some mad insane engine conversion - or I'd be planning to jump ship in favour of that Lotus 111S...
Rob Bell

hmmmm mad engine conversion!!!! Lotus are releasing ( or have, i never remember ) a 190 bhp toyota engine for the elise for the states. I bet one of those engines would sit nicely in the F.... the extra 40 bhp would be nice too. Has anyone put a V8 in an f yet? Ahhh forget that, i'd be thinking japanese nissan pulsar GTIR turbo engine..... 280 BHP would really kick the F up the ar*e!!!


Either that or take the cheaper/more sensible option. it sounds like an excellent time to get a used head, take it to mike satur, get the full performance treatment on it and whack it back on.

On a horrible note..... God i bet you wished you had towed it huh?
jon

Cam belt came loose - wasn't that what the recall was about - checking the torque of the bolts AND surely that is something that any dealer should have checked when changing the belts. I seem to recall Mike Satur (I think) did replacement bolts for the pulley because they were a bit suspect.

Check it out - I would certainly use it against the dealer if they say they do not touch the pulley.

Ted
Ted Newman

Ted - you could be right. I read that to mean that the crankshaft pulley was loose - but if it was one of the camshaft pulleys - then yes - this is EXACTLY what the recall was for ("torque relaxation of camshaft pulley retaining bolts" - http://www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/MGF_recalls.htm#r2)

Regarding extreme engine transplants - I fancy a 200+bhp KV6 transplant... and I reckon it'll fit ;o)
Rob Bell

Ted , you are right we still supply the 'engine life saver kit' not everybody has 'em..yet but certainly cheaper than a new engine;-).
CJ top end rebuild with VVC unit and valves etc.about £900.00plus vat.£1700 is a bit rich.
mike
mike


Okay,

Lots of information and some questions.

I saw the car this morning. I will repeat what they told me - "Ther are two camshafts, a front and a back. one is non adjustable and the other is. On the adjustable side your bolt has worked its way loose" "Infact it has completely worn and now moves freely in and out" - which i could see it does.

So - is this what the recall was for. If it was recalled and fixed - can I make a claim and if they ahven't fixed it in the past have I got a claim against them ?

At the moment they are taking the head off to see how bad the damage is and will let me know the next set of options.

MIKE - engine life saver kit! Can you tell me a bit more about that please ? is this going to save the day ? £900 to supply and fit or just supply ?

Ted - they say they never touch that bolt not even when replacing the cambelt.

What's the next step ?
C James

CJ, £900.00is fitted.
The bolt that has worked loose is in fact the one that Rover recalled.The recall was to check the torque setting, if it was below the required setting then it would have to be refered back to Rover for instructions, it would not be a case of just tightening a loose bolt as by this time the mating threads would be permanently damaged. However IMO the standard bolts are not up to the job on VVC engines and there is enough evidence to substaniate this.
Liability is another discussion and you will need to check your service records etc.No harm in making a claim though I have seen claims met on cars well out of warranty and with 70k miles on the clock.
'Engine life saver kit' is a higher spec kit of bolts 4 for the VVC or 2 for the 1.8i, that will prevent the same occurance, no good at this moment in time.
I have never seen the 1.8i bolts coming adrift and I believe this failure of the bolts on the VVC units is due to:- 1. the eccentric loading of the belt on the VVC cam gears and the harmonic imbalence of the split VVC cams although this is partialy damped by the exhaust cam wheel. 2. The wrong specification bolts.All IMO of course.
mike
mike


I think we might be onto something here: If the dealer never fixed it then i can make a claim against the dealer. If the dealer did fix it but it still failed then maybe Rover might be at fault.

I feel like I'm clutching at straws - but it might just be worth it.

Chris
C James

Has this been attended to on current VVC production engines?
JH Gillson


The dealer has sent an e mail to the tech dept at MG and am waiting to find out what their first offer will be.
C James

This thread was discussed between 11/08/2003 and 18/08/2003

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