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MG MGF Technical - oil

hi to you all

could anybody tell me whats the best oil to use on my mgf
is it 10w 40 castrol magnatec synthectic

many thanks darren in milton keynes
darren

Mobil 1.

Tim
Tim Jenner

another vote for Mobil 1
David S

Darren,

In reply to your email, yes it's fully synthetic. It's just about the most expensive oil you can buy - but it's also just about the best. Cheapest I found was actually my local Halfords, it was about £42 for 4 litres (and you'll need slightly more than that for a full change - think the sump capacity is 5 litres?). To show how good it is, a friend once stripped a Mercedes engine after 120,000 miles and could still see the honing marks on the cylinder bores from when the engine was manufactured. No wear evident whatsoever. Guess what oil the engine was run on...

Tim.
Tim Jenner

"Guess what oil the engine was run on..."

Castrol??

I'll get me coat...
Pip

>>>...Halfords, it was about £42 for 4 litres
===£34 for 4 litres last time I looked, and about half that in any Carrefour in France.
David S

Macro and Costco sell it much cheaper I am told,
Richard P

I know it's a lot cheaper in France (and a different viscosity, if memory serves).

Tim.
Tim Jenner

add on the ferry cost and it gets a bit expensive.
JohnP

Darren,

Magnatec has an ester included in blend maybe 15-20%

The ester based synthetic type of product means you never start metal to metal, even after a year there should be a one, one millionth inch of film. Even if the car has been in storage.

Redline is an ester based oil but M1 is PAO probably with some ester added
Comparing Redline HTST compared to M1

5W-30 3.8 (M1 3.08)
10W-30 3.8 (M1 3.17
5w-40 4.6
10W-40 4.7
15W-50 5.8 (5.11)
20W-50 6.1

So IMO Redline is the slightly better oil but M1 is a very good oil and is usually cheaper.

Paul
Paul

Can't claim to be an oil specialist (all I know is how to order gear oil.) but I am told that the 5W-30 & 0W-30 (Though I am not sure about this ref, as it is second hand info & came from Halfords when my other half priced up oil from them.)synthetic will give better performance than the 10. Our car currently runs with Millers 5W-30 & it has significantly improved the running temp. (£20.00 for 5L.) Not sure who stocks it but you can buy direct from them.

Cheers

Sally
Sally

www.millersoils.co.uk, they have a utility where you can search for the make & model of your car & it will supply a recommended oil & its spec.

Cheers
Sally

Castrol RS! Used by myself in a RaceCar with Rover engine and is probably tested to more of an extreme than any road car engine. Hasn't let me down, seems to run slightly cooler than a 10W/40 Semi but for fast road applications and even TrackDays Castrol Magnatec is a Damn good oil.
BTW Castrol RS comes in 2 grades - 10W/60 for Modern Classics (Sierra Cosworth, MG Montego Turbo Etc) and 0W/30 for Modern Advanced Engines (ie your K series!)
Steve Tyler

Steve,

I'm uncertain about Castrol Synths as the III base stock issue, however this may have changed re German market.
10W60 is a "LeMans" Oil certainly for RV8 and older engines but I would also consider Motul and Redline which are ester based.

Also not convinced about 0W good for mpg but maybe not performance.

Paul
Paul

Get the stuff Mike Satur uses. I've also heard that a 0W oil isn't recommended for the F, but can't remember who said it or the reason, so if someone here can think of good reasons not to put a 0W oil in the 'F' (oil pressure possibly? Bedding in period?) I'd appreciate it to back up my 'odd comment'.
Leigh Reid

Paul you have a few things wrong there the test ASTM D4683 [1] is called "High Temperature High Shear", so it's HTHS not HTST. This is a standardised test taking place at 150C.

The lower the HTHS rating the faster is your car, the less thick is the oil film.

A 5W oil will flow as fast as an 0W oil, the difference between the two is the pour point being lower for the 0W oil.

Magnatec is a Group3 (HC) oil with ester, but I really doubt its 20%. Castrol RS is POA (Group 4). Too much ester ruins your seals, so I personaly would stay away from Motul 300V.

[1] http://www.astm.org/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/DATABASE.CART/REDLINE_PAGES/D4683.htm?E+mystore$


"Likewise, the PAO tends to cause seal shrinkage and the ester causes seal swelling, so the effects are offset when both base oils are present. It is the ester that can cause problems when one changes from mineral to synthetic. Ester base oil used alongside PAO base oil in lubricant formulation has excellent natural detergency. In other words, it will clean up varnish on component surfaces as a result of thermal and oxidative degradation of the lubricant. When one switches from a typical mineral-based engine oil to a typical synthetic-based oil, the varnish layer will be removed by the ester in the synthetic oil and become suspended."

http://www.lube-tips.com/BackIssues/2003-02-05.htm
Thierry

Thierry,

Yes they are HTHS my error, but Redline use ASTM D4741, but you are also looking at protection from your oil, 0W20 would be good for speed!.

Do you have info on Magnatec III and RS PAO? as Castro are tightlipped.

If you have info on why esters based oils are not safe in any way please let me know.

A switch from Mineral certainly may cause problems and I'm looking at a product called Auto rx to clean engine slowly in this situation.

Motul 300V is a race oil and lacks detergents.
M1 Motorsport probably contains more esters hence price rise than road range.

M1 uses TME's, Three or more shortchain but fat molecules. Polyols are generally more oxidative and thermally stable by 50 C over diesters and 150 C over petroleum oils. These esters have lower coefficients of friction than either diesters or PAO's.

By adding a polyol ester at least 5-10% to a PAO or mineral oil reduces base oil friction remarkably. So esters are natural Friction Modifiers.

Paul
Paul

From your statements I conclude that your read the BobIsTheOilGuy Forums too ;)

I don't plan to use AutoRx if my car has less then 120.000km.

D4741 Viscosity, Tapered Plug
D4683 Viscosity, Tapered Bearing

Motul300V is openly sold here, Castrol RS 10W-60 is labeled a "Race oil" too but everybody uses it (why not), so I just wanted to some people to know about the "apparently" huge ester content.

Esters are also used to transport Additives, hence you sometimes see 1%-2% of ester content in an oil, this oil is then labeled "with ester".

Apart from what I know Magnatec is a HC Group III base with some PAO and esters added to it.

http://www.castrol.com.au/products/pdf/Castrol%20Magnatec.pdf
http://www.castrol.com.au/products/pdf/Formula%20R%20Synthetic%200W-40.pdf
http://www.castrol.com.au/products/pdf/Formula%20R%20Synthetic10W-60.PDF
http://www.castrol.com.au/products/pdf/Formula%20R%20Synthetic%205W-30.pdf
Thierry

Thierry,

Re Auto rx - I'm thinking about using it for A&B engines with mileage 75k-100k
Pics from a sceptic

http://www.rms13.com/imgal/

Esters have UMA anyway

http://www.castrol.co.uk/eng/safety_data_sheets.shtml

Highly refined basestock so II with esters?

With Castrol we know from legal case that they used III as a synthetic so you cannot tell from MSDS III or PAO.

However in Germany it has to be a "true Synth" to be called Synthetic - hence US rush to find German Oil BITOG.

I mentioned Motul in relation to 10W 60 Race oil their other brands are not all ester based unlike Redline.
Silkolene are worth a mention being Castor Oil based.
However Motul and Redline Race Oils contain very few detergents wheras Castrol and M1 may still have full additive package.

PAO needs esters to carry additives but I think the TME ester adds to ester content as well as balancing seal issue.

The problem with esters based oil tends to be price as M1 is a top class oil usually obtainable at a reasonable price.

Some Info on Power
15w-50
Max Power 127.9 bhp @ 9750 rpm
Torque 75.8 ft-lbs @ 7300 rpm

After a flush-out and fill up with 5w-40 the readings were;

5w-40
Max Power 131.6 bhp @ 9750 rpm
Torque 77.7 ft-lbs @ 7400 rpm

Don't do this at Home
0w-20
Max Power 134.4 bhp @ 9750 rpm
Torque 78.9 ft-lbs @ 7400 rpm

Paul
Paul

Mobil 1.

Tip: Book a day trip to France, have a meal, get the booze and fags, buy your Mobil 1 in Carrefours. About £19 for a 4(?) litre container last year.
Kelvin Fay

NOW I,M TOTALLY CONFUSSED. HAD MINE SERVICED,AND THE BILL JUST SAID OIL 14.30. DOES IT MATTER THAT MUCH FOR A CAREFULL DRIVER,IN HIS MID LIFE CRISES ,PLAY THING. I ALLWAYS THOUGHT A BRAND NAME OF OIL AND CHANGED REGULAR WAS OK . MULTIGRADE OF COURSE.
m e johnson

http://www.rms13.com/imgal/thumbnails.php?album=1
Paul

Paul.......o guess not all oil the same .think ill do a change myself in a few weeks. a 66k 1997 . wat would u put in mine considering the usage. thanks....mel...
m e johnson

sorry usage is short runs mainly 40 miles at weekends...little use in the week.
m e johnson

Sorry try again,

Above pics show an engine using an unknown brand of oil.

Esters are polar and stick to metal, sounds good to me.

A bit over the top for road car but reason for using synths in Race/perfomance oils.

Polyol esters (which Redline use as basestock) is also used as jet engine lubricants, the oil is expected to flow at -54C, pump readily at -40C, and withstand sump temperature approaching 200C with drain intervals measured in years. A bit over the top for ICE.

The advantages of esters is the film that the ester puts down and prevents metal to metal contact and has four to five times the film strength and the tensile strength. It is more of an insurance policy. Compare cooking with butter and cooking with olive oil. If you leave the butter cooking too long in the frying pan, when it gets too hot, the oil will evaporate at a certain point (volatility), it will actually carbonize and leave a mess because it has overheated. The ester has a very high running temperature which will stand up to very high temperature in an emergency. For example, what if you are driving along and a hose comes off, a rock hits the radiator, a clamp comes off, the water pump stops working, the thermostat sticks or any of these things. What would you rather have in the crankcase in your, butter or olive oil?

These are the extremes (approx guide mineral oil I'm happy to run to a temp of 110deg c before adding oil cooler a synth 125c+).

Most people are looking for a happy medium low cost low maintenance oil and choice depends on how long you wish to keep car and your intended application.

Clean oil is better than dirty oil which is better than no oil, which is the regular change with brand oil.

Paul
Paul

That said, 1.8K MPI owners can easily use a 0w-30 (you may go with Castrol SLX) in their engine, considering the HTHS at 150C you should be very safe. The 0w-30 grade is actually what shell recommends for the 1.8 MPI series on their site. And Ultra Helix is "Rover registered". Not many are.
Thierry

This thread was discussed between 02/09/2004 and 05/09/2004

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