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MG MGF Technical - Oops, there goes another one - HGF

Well,
what do you know. I was demonstrating the car this evening to a potential buyer, pulled over to change over and let him have a go, and saw the trademark steam rising from the grills.

Thought it odd after driving half a mile (at the beginning of the test drive) when the alternator belt squeeled as I pulled away - although it was raining, it had never done this before. Obviously the trademark leak from the gasket at the forward right hand edge, above the alternator.

Hall of shame added to already!

For those who want to know:-
VVC, 1997 (P) - 21870 miles. Last service Sept 2001.
Slight weep from heater hose in Feb - pipe changed and system throughly bled - no air locks or coolant loss since (system repeatedly bled every day for 4 days after work completed. Tank cap replaced Feb 2002 due slight weep - rivit still in centre position (today).
Water level checked every day before outward journey - never any loss and never any signs of water spots on (gray painted) floor.

I guess some here will still say mines done 1,000,000,000 miles without a problem so there is not an inherrant design flaw/problem or oh, it was probably an air lock / didn't check the fluid level / res cap failed / thrashed it before water/oil at temperature..... however, I believe some will fail, some won't. If you get to 60K+ miles without HGF, then your's probably isn't going to fail. I have now (on the day I was going to part with her) joined the 243 (on the Hall of shame) + F's that have blown a head gasket.

Lovely
Paul Lane
Paul Lane

My sympathy Paul. We all, despite a few arguments from other owners of early models, know of this problem. Only hope that the steel dowels/uprated gasket have largely solved it. Must admit to a degree of scepticism on this however: if HGF is a symptom rather than an inherent fault, then to wha extent has the cause been dealt with?

Hope it's not too pricey.

E
Ed Clarke

Hmmm. Not good, and not that much older than mine. Which reminds me, I need to renew my warranty...

Leigh
Leigh

Wadda pain in the ass. Talk about bad timing ...

Perhaps it's trying to tell you it doesn't want to leave!!
Andy Gilhooley

At least the chap who was viewing it was still interested - he's not in a hurry to buy, and at least if he buys mine post repair, he's got a gauranteed post mod gasket by MGR!
Paul
Paul Lane

Is there anything I could do to ensure that I do not get an HGF? Might sound silly but for that sort of repair cost it might be worth taking some precautions. Bear in mind I am a non DIY person.
Neil

Paul, just make sure that chap understands why it happens and it's not just your car. And also tell him about the new up-rated items that will be installed. Hopefully he buys the car off you.

Best of luck.

Hanah
Hanah Kim

Neil,
I had applied all the "look out fors" recommended from this BBS and from experience.

As stated, I checked the coolant levels before every outbound trip, never revved above 3000 until engine at temperature, never "pushed" the car until oil temperature ok. Watched my garage floor for any slight signs of leaks, monitored the coolant cap and replaced it when I noticed a tiny weep 3 months ago (rivet was just slightly off centre), had the fluid replaced 1 1/2 years ago at the 36k service, never carried out any unnecessary "tinkering" with the engine/car, fully serviced by MGR (quite good Dealer).

I could not suggest any owner do any more to avoid HGF. I guess if it's going to happen, it's going to happen and that's that.
Maybe have the HG changed to the newest version at the 5 year service - it would not add a great deal of cost to it, although there is a lot to be said for the saying "if it 'ain't broke, don't fix it", disturbing something that's ok may lead to future problems.

I am going to have both belts replaced at the same time as the 60k/5yr service will be due in Aug, and this will mean it is £200 instead of the £600 - good news for a/the prospective buyer.
Paul
Paul Lane

Bad luck Paul. What excellent timing! Typical.

It reminds me of when my girlfiend sold her old Fiat 127 (or 6?) - great little car, 20 years old and v low mileage and gave her no poblems until the day she tried to sell it. The prospective new owner came round, in they got and the gear stick came clean off in her hand!

The good bit - they still bought the car post repair - so fingers crossed...
Julian

Jeez, bad luck Paul :o(

Add this to the catalogue of MGFs that have spited their owners come sale time.

Check out the archives - this is a stunningly common occurance. Moral - never upset your MG! ;o)
Rob Bell

Thanks for the comiserations every one.

The car is currently on a truck on its way to my "local" Dealer.
I should have an update tomorrow lunchtime (ie if the head's warped etc) - knowing my luck it'll be a head as well. Anyone got a true flat VVC head knocking around?? Just in case.
Paul
Paul Lane

I shall soon have a shiny new VVC head - but it's being incorporated into my car as soon as it arrives...
David Bainbridge

Paul,

I'm intrigued by the link you make between the squeeling alternator belt and your HGF.(Bad luck, by the way).

I had an HGF on my v-reg (MY2000) VVC at just 7,000 miles. But there was always some squeeling from the engine from new (I mentioned it to the dealer at either the 3-month or 12 month service; they supposedly made the adjustment but the squeeling never went away). Is this a common sign to watch out for - wouldn't the dealer (G Kingsbury and well regarded on another site)have put 2 and 2 together. The HGF was sorted out under warranty and water under the bridge now (and all over the engine at the time -M25/M4 junction in a rainy rush hour)!.
John

John,
My car never had a squeeling alternator belt, and I noticed that just after the beginning of the demo drive it negan to squeel at pull off. As it was raining I put it down to rain getting onto the belt (even though it had never done this before in the rain, with or without lights on).

It was only after I had stopped and been overtaken by steam that I put 2 and 2 together. The Head Gasket common failure point is at the forward right hand edge of the block/head. This point is directly above the alternator.

I don't believe anyone on this BBS has reported rembering if their alternator belt squeeled pre HGF. This may serve to jog some minds....

All I would say to any F owner is, if your alternator belt has never squeeled, and suddenly starts - check it out right away. Although at this stage your gasket may already have failed, at least you won't drive with it losing water/oil etc and will prevent further damage.

The head is now off mine and it needs a skim as it has slightly warped! well no surprise there then....

Paul
Paul Lane

I wonder if anyone remembers the extremely silly posting some time ago accusing MGF owners who had suffered HGFs of not checking coolant levels etc.

Paul make sure the new metal dowels are fitted.


Jon Baker

Jon,
I remember them well. I gave my Dealer all the latest part numbers required.
Paul
Paul Lane

Just after my wife test drove a new ZR 120 (1.8i engine) it blew it's HG so don't think the latest engines are completely imune either :-(

Old fashioned cast iron engines with decent amounts of coolant in them had their advantages.

jt

PS She says it had nothing to do with her driving - honest!
John Thomas

Well, it's all done
new "latest" HG with steel dowels,
new Belts,
new cam follower (which was found to be beginning to break up),
new coolant cap
All gauranteed parts/labour for 1 year - this car should be a good buy now!

When its gone it will be good by from me also, have just ordered my brand new 4 seater rag top - then the three of us can all go out together!

I must say that my 2 years of ownership have been great - no real problems until selling it! I guess it just didn't want to go.
Paul Lane

For "Neil, Bucks" benefit: how many hours labour was it?

Neil.
Neil

Neil and Neil.
The HG replacement was done at the book time/price - £420.
Added to this was the additional cost of the skim - £150 (skim @ £25 + time to strip/rebuild)
Then there was the cost of recovery to the Dealers - (£don't ask)
Then there was the belt replacement parts/labour - £150
All plus the Governments slice (the only interest they ever take in an F!) VAT

Grand total £940 ish! Ouch...
All to sell the beggar.

Paul
Paul Lane

Thanks

So at say £60ph that's 7 hours.

As they had to take the belts off to get the head off, I'm surprised they charged £150 extra!

Neil.
Neil

I find it quite scandalous that they charge you £150.00 for belts - as Neil says they have to come off to remove the head so at about £25.00 for the parts that is £125.00 pure profit!

Ted
Ted Newman

Well seeing as I paid £340 for a service and new brakes the day before the HGF I hope he will do me some sort of deal. Looks like I do not have a case for claiming a FOC replacement as Neil tells me.

This month is proving more expensive than I thought! Especially with the World Cup approaching the football booze budget might have to be reconsidered!!
Neil

Ted,
To change the head the belts don't have to come off, they would slacken the tension and pull them off the drive gears. When they replace the belts they additionally have to drop the engine down a bit - which involves the disconnection of a couple of other bits (coolant hoses etc), hence the additional cost - £50 for the belts, 1.5 hours for the additional labour.
Paul
Paul Lane

Paul

Whilst I have not done it myself I am told that you only have to undo one mounting point to allow the removal of the belts - hardly a hundred quids worth of work!

Sorry I got the materials cost wrong I was thinking MPi where there is only one belt.

Ted
Ted Newman

Don't know how much has to be undone to clear crank gear from subframe to allow belt past - Roger Parker could comment best I guess. As you say, there is a time element to replace VVC belt as well.
Paul
Paul Lane

This thread was discussed between 02/05/2002 and 13/05/2002

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