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MG MGF Technical - Racing Seat - idea

Been thinking about improving the driving position on the F with Techspeed. We could not see how we could fit a race seat to the F without removing the crossmember beneath the seat unless a full cage was fitted to compensate. However, at Castle Coombe on Saturday I saw a side fitting racing seat from Cobra (?). As its side fitting I think it might just be ok to bolt it on top of the cross member and that should reduce the driving position by at least an inch. Has anyone else thought of this or tried it? Any obvious problems? Rob?
marc h

Most race seat manufacturers make side mountable seats. The problem is that the F cabin is narrow, so most designs of seat simply don't fit in the space avaiable.
Techspeed have had a couple of people ask them about racing seats, who later decided against it when they discovered just how much it would cost. FYI sparco actaully make a tailored subframe to suit the F according to the current Demon tweeks catalogue, but I don't know of anyone who has tried them or found a seat that will fit. Even with the cheapest seat available, (assuming it would fit) you would still be looking at £600-700 for a pair of seats with subframes, a very expensive inch of head room.
It is something I would like to do at a later date, but I want to see if Techspeed can come up with a solution to mounting 4 point harnesses first.
Steve White

In my car I followed the procedure detailed in the MG Cup car preparations Manual. The crossmember was removed and a couple of load bearing pieces fitted in order to lower the seat right down to the proper floor level. I have just completed this operation on a friends car for him as well so that he sits lower and the clearance to the top of the roll cage is adequate. At our most recent race meeting there was an unfortunate single car roll-over of one of our MGFs. It went end for end and sideways five times and has completely destroyed the car. It is a testament to the strength of the car, the race harness and the roll-over protection fitted that the driver received very little injury. It was a very bad crash.
d mottram

David, glad to hear that your fellow competitor survived relatively unharmed!

Marc, I wonder whether the car you saw was the same as the F that Roy spotted at Silverstone a while back, with the Cobra seat welded to a seat standard runner? Does this sound like the solution you saw?

The seating position would be fractionally lower, because the base squab height is lower in racing seats due to less padding.

Like Steve, I am aware that Sparco have a F-specific seat runner. I have told Marvin and Roy about it, and they were going to look into it - but again, not going to be as satisfactory as the solution undertaken by David for his race car.

How low do you want to go Marc?
Rob Bell

I can't see the sparco sub frame actually giving much of a decrease in seat height as you still have the room taken up by the sub frame. The advantage of the side mounted seats is that the seat can effectively rest on the crossmember. I measured a sparco seat and it seems that it would fit as long as you could do the bolts up from the inside as opposed to the outside (if you know what I mean). Rob, I've not seen the car with the welded seats (at least not in the flesh) but I wouldn't be interested in that. Wouldn't trust the welds!

As I would only do the drivers seat this may be an option that would work for a few hundred quid. An inch of headroom would I think feel a lot better and would crucially put me a bit lower below my roll hoops in the event of a problem.

Rob, David who is in the championship with a TF has just had the roll hoops fitted and has used these to anchor a 4 point harness. Are the hoops up to it? I fear not but he says the garage that did it for him are confident that it is safe. Roy and I discussed putting in the rear half of a roll cage which would be strong enough to take the harness and would give more head clearance to the driver. Unfortunately you'd need to run a race hard top and remove the hood. The latter would not be a problem for me but the cheapest race hard top I can findis via B&G and they want nigh on £700. MGS&R want £1200 for the same thing without the perspex rear screen or the fastenings! (no wonders they went bust)
marc h

Is it Ian in the MGCCSC? I saw the car at MGF10 on Sunday - blue TF160 IIRC. Looked very smart! :o)

Neil Stothert has also used his roll hoops as a mounting of a pair of harnesses - I showed Roy these at Donington, so he is familar with the set up. I think that he'd be happier if the cross member were a little higher - closer to shoulder height - which would be a little safer in the event of an accident.

If you are thinking of a fixed seat, then have a chat to Duncan - he's got a pair of Cobra seats in his car, using fixed mounts (he's the only driver of the nitrous express).
Rob Bell

Three of our F racers use a rear roll cage which can have a full race harness attached. All use the standard soft top. They are all CAMS approved. I have the X power hoops but I would not attach belts to it, they are held in by two bolts that hold the original seatbelts, I don't think they would spread the load safely.
Andrew Regens

Fair comment there Andrew. The mounting brackets of the X-Power bar is actually held in place by the bolts retaining the seat belt reals and the bolts retaining the soft top frame, and sit on top of the existing seat belt towers - which is a good thing. But you're right the cross bar of the hoops is retained by a bolt at each end... Certainly, I can't imagine that this is as tough as a half-roll cage.

BTW I am very interested in the half cage you guys have got: the Safety Devices item available here in the UK precludes the use of the standard soft top!
Rob Bell

Rob wrote:

>>BTW I am very interested in the half cage you guys have got:

Me to Andrew, based on

"a rear roll cage which can have a full race harness attached. All use the standard soft top."

That's exactly what a number of us are looking for! Please can you tell us more?

Dave
http://www.mgs-on-track.com
Dave Livingstone

Got it - using Google Australia :o)

The roll cage specified in the racing series campagned by both David and Andrew specifies the use of a CAM/ FIA approved cage built by Bon Roll Bars (part number MGFT1004).

The website address for Bond Roll Bars is (unsurprisingly) http://www.bondrollbars.com/

I'll give them an email - but suspect that shipping costs to the UK may be prohibitive :o(
Rob Bell

The company that our racers used was Brown Davis Motorsport, Bayswater, Victoria. E-Mail dbrown@browndavis.com.au
Andrew Regens

Do you get sufficent clearance between the top of the half roll cage your helmet for FIA / MSA purposes? Cant see how unless you lower the seat by taking out the crossmember. Even then I'd be surprised.
marc h

Sorry Rob, Duncan who? Do you have an e mail address for him? Id like to see how he did it and whether its worth it.
marc h

Here's a picture that I took at Silverstone this year. The car was parked next to the BBQ area - don't know who it belongs to.

http://www.csmgf.co.uk/darkside/others/P7232231.jpg

David Clelland

Marc, Duncan Dorrell. I can forward your email to him if you'd like? (Assuming that Duncan doesn't read this thread first of course!)

David, I think that is Duncan's car you've got pictured there... I am not sure about the harness mounting position though.
Rob Bell

rob, that would be very kind.
marc h

Wilco. Can you remind me what your email addy is Marc?
Rob Bell

With respect to the half cages made be by Brown Davies here in Melbourne:

1. They do fit under the original soft-top
2. They are not a full cage........only a single hoop with two rearward braces and a diagonal in the plane of the hoop. They are a bolt in option.
3. The clearance to the helmet is only legal to FIA if you are a short driver. Rex Kerger was the driver involved in the accident described by me above and is a short man. Thus he was OK.

4. One of our other drivers, Nick, has a single hoop with both forward and rearward braces made by a different company (Danny Murphy Motorsport) but it is higher and will not allow the fitment of the original top. Nick is taller than Rex and has just had the seat mounting lowered as per my instructions and he is also going to have a full cage fitted as per the Safety Devices cage in my car and all the UK based MG Cup cars. He has looked carefully at the clearance between the top of his helmet and the line joining the raer hoop and the top of the very strong windscreen frame and decided after Rex's accident that whilst the lowered seat will improve his situation in a static case, he would like more protection in the case of a rollover.

5. The cages made by Bond Bars in Sydney are full cages based essentially on the Safety Devices cage.

6. The races series that was running in Sydney used the Bond Bars cage. Our series in Melbourne uses any ROP that complies with CAMS/FIA regulations.


7. In Sprint (non-racing) meetings, roll over protection is not required which is to Andrews advantage as it reduces the cost and complexity of enjoying ones car on a race crcuit.


Regards....David
d mottram

Thanks for that summary David - clarifies alot :o)

Basically the same situation as here - but with the exception that you at least have an option of a low-half cage that isn't available here in the UK.

BTW I have emailed both Bond and Brown Davies - but not had any reply as yet.
Rob Bell

Not sure where Roy at Techspeed was proposing to get the half cage / hoop he mentioned from. It would have had front and back bracing and would have been FIA compliant with the standard seats but you couldnt use the hood. I know you dont need it in sprinting but having watched a couple of cars roll this season I think I d like the added reassurance of a proper hoop - dont think the X power ones would do much good if the worst was to happen.
marc h

This thread was discussed between 17/10/2005 and 20/10/2005

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