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MG MGF Technical - Shocker noises ....still...HELP

I recently installed new SPAX shockers and although they have cured my cars horrible handling they are noisy. When I first noticed this I posted a query here and Mike advised me to release the bottom end of the shocker and pump them through their full stroke 3 times and the refit them. This has made only a mrginal difference to the noise.

Are SPAX shockers naturally noisy? The original ones weren't (but then they didn't work well as shockers)

Any suggestions?
Phil Stafford

Have a look www.mgf.ultimatemg.com then go to the chamber of horrors, the middle one, this could be the worst answer.
Andrew Regens

http://www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/group2/common_problems/CoH/images/Rear_suspension_turrets_gone/

I hope not!!! 8-O
Rob Bell

Thanks for the scary pictures, but the problem I have is not structural. It started the first time I drove the car with the new shocks and is worse when the car is cold and has been sitting all night. After it has been sitting in the sun all day the noise is much less intrusive. It seems to be coming from all 4 shockers anmd is a hollow clonking noise at vey low speeds on rippled asphalt. At higher speeds and bigger bumps it is less noticeable.

I probably have purchased the wrong parts given that I was trying to replace cr@p british parts with other (also obviousl cr@p) british parts. Should have spent the extra an bought Konis.
Phil Stafford

Phil,

check how you have mounted the shocks onto the car.
In particular how the bush is positioned on the top and/or the bottom of the shock.

Make sure there is no slack at any of the mounting points.

Answer back when you have done that.

Once I replaced new shocks onto my Nissan Patrol and the new parts where not correct.
They were meant to be a direct replacement, but when I put them on.....no way!!!


cheers,
Branko
Branko

Hi Phil,

I once had a slight clonking but only over minor ripples in the road that turned out to be ovalled ARB drop links. Not sure if your symptoms sound the same, but logically there could be something minor that the stiffer damping rate is 'amplifying'.
Mike Hankin

Phil, when Dave's upper shock mount failed, it creaked like an old sailing galleon, but the stress fracture wasn't obvious until stripped down.

But I don't think that this is a very likely explanation here, as the failure is something that develops over time - not as soon as the new shocks are fitted!
Rob Bell

Hi Phil,

Sorry you're still having troubles. I'm very happy with the SPAX I fitted recently, although I bought mine from Mike Satur and understand them to be a different specification.

Also, I replaced most of my ball joints, track rod ends and upgraded to poly bushes at the same time.

Could the parts simply be faulty, where were they purchased, could you send them back?

Cheers, Russ.
R D Mellor

Thanks for the hints guys.

Branko

Shocks are tight with no movement. I checked that when I disconnected the bottom ends to try pumping them up.

Mike you may have something there. I have only replaced the shocks as after 80,000 km they were shot. If the rest of the suspension is of the same poor quality it is lakely that other parts may be worn and now rattling due to the stiffer shocks. It will be VERY disppointing if this is the case, only reinforcing the opinion that apart from the gret drive, everything else about these cars is poor quality. (I am comparing this with my wife' 16 year old Benz ith 260,000 m on it and the suspension is still as tight and quiet as it was when new)

Rob,

I agree, the mounts are perfect, no creaking, and I have set the shocks at level 1 out of 28 level setting, and my understanding is that this type of fatigue failure occurs when the shocks are cranked up to much higher levels than standard by people who don't understand how shockers work or what they are used for ( i.e. not for reducing body roll but controlling rebound and damping vertical scillations of the suspension keeping the tyres in more complete contact with the road.)

Russ,

I purchased the parts from MGOC in the UK so would only send tham back if I am convinced they are faulty as the shipping cost is GBP 51 each way. What is the difference between the ones sold by MGOC and Mike Satur? Spax only list one model number for MGF in their catalogue.
Phil Stafford

I am sorry to say Phil that MGF suspension is no way near as long-lived as a 20 year old Benz's :o(

I've replaced much of the rubber on my car, and it hasn't done a fraction of your missus' wagon...
Rob Bell

Hi,

I have just fitted Spax shocks 2 weeks ago and the rear drivers side is making a clicking noise a bit mettalic sounding like something metal tapping against the inside of the quarter panel just behind the drivers head. I have it booked in this Saturday for inspection. It is not a clunking moise but definetly more of a click or tapping noise which is really annoying and it only starts above 30 mph and is pretty much constant tick tick tick.

Is your experience similar?

I will let you know what we find at the weekend.
Chris Catchpole

I had what your experiencing when i fitted mine Chris, i had also had it lowered and took me ages to suss out what it was, my prob was one of the spot welds around the suspension mountings, i had rewelded and also welded in reinforcing brackets around rear mountings after hearing of possible stress fractures appearing in this area after doing this kind of mod,the annoying click has now gone, Dave
DC Morris T6 DCM

Chris,

the sound is a quite distinctive "hollow" clonk which only occurs at under 30 MPH and is worse when cold.

Hope yours is not a major structuiral problem like daves. Let us know how your inspection goes on saturday.

Rob,

is there a chance that other worn suspension bits are now being excited differently by the slightly firmer shocks than previously and causing this knocking noise?

Phil
Phil Stafford

It's possible I guess Phil. Might be worth looking at the antiroll bar mounts and drop links - and other bushes in general. But you've replaced the worst culprits already, since you've replaced the shocks!

DC's story is a bit worrying... Might be worth having a closer look at those upper mounts after all Phil.
Rob Bell

have the mountings on TF's been strengthened to match the much stiffer suspension? - I hope so!
Tony

Yes - there has been a number of detail changes to the body in white of the TF body shell - in addition to the modification of subframes - to cope with the new suspension design.

It is worth bearing in mind that the MGF suspension system - Hydragas - was originally designed to NOT require dampers. The 'spheres perform both spring and damping functions. However, the Rover engineeers who designed MGF wanted more control over rebound wheel control, so have added shock absorbers that at a good deal stiffer under extension than under compression.

The body work was designed around the fact that the shock mounts, using standard dampers, simply don't get that much loading.

This all falls apart, of course, when you fit aftermarket dampers that are stiff under compression.

The standard mounts aren't designed for the loads this can impose - hence the risk of failure...

Some cars are more prone to this type of failure. But the sad fact is, all cars fitted with uprated dampers will probably suffer fatigue failure in time - it's a question of when rather than if.

I live with this knowledge. If the mounts fail, I'll get them repaired and strengthened in much the same way as Andrew has had done on his. If it ain't broken, don't fix...
Rob Bell

Looking at Andrews photo's the fatigue failure has occurred due to flex in the flat part of the mount where the bolt fits thru. Is there a large enough flat space underneath the mount to allow the installation of a large flat washer (e.g. like supplied with aftermarket seat belt kits) which would distribute the upward load to the webs either side of the flat from the underneath thereby stopping the flat surface flexing. If you could fit such a plate before any fatigue occurs it may stop the failure as the flat surface would not flex and therefore not fatigue.

Your Thoughts?
Phil Stafford

Phil, The original welds pulled away from the rear innerwing first then it would apear the shocker mounting pulled away. When we reinforced with new plates, before putting the turrets back we put in a base plate so that it should not pull away again. Contact me and I can show you more photos plus the actual job.
Andrew Regens

The clicking that can occur usually means that metal fatigue has occured and either welds have broken or sheet metal has cracked. The basic inner wing area is too weak for any substantial extra loads and a ideal solution for people wanting to upgrade the suspension would be to introduce additional sheet metal to the inner wing sections that will span between each bulkhead. The damper turret if stiffened will not take a much heavier load than say a 10-12 setting on a 28 position damper, the loads are simply transfered into the inner wing areas with the resultant problems ( to repair correctly then requires the engine dropping to gain access).In fact there is no need to have the dampers set any harder IMO. The trouble can occur if the hydrogas pressure is set too low and the extra load is then moved into the damper and bodywork.
Phil, regarding your comments on the quality of British parts, some are better than others but my experience with Spax have been better than certain others we have tried and have a good back up with warranty and advice, about 50 years of manufacturing helps. Since you bought these from the MGOC I would contact them to see if they have had any other complaints regarding their stock. I haven't had a problem with any of mine and have gone on to develop a suitable replacement for the TF with them. Every damper is tested according to the information I have so I would be surprised if you have 4 duff dampers. The clicking can also occur with the type of valving used I had this from another manufacturer and discontinued using them. I have also tried koni and find them also very good especially the top adjusters the price was some £100 dearer though than the equivalent Spax.
mike

Mike,

based on your experience with these shocks and the low likelyhood of having 4 duff shocks in the one delivery, I am beginning to believe it may be the same problem mike hankin experienced with stretched ARB drop links. (I just havent had time to get under the car and check for movement.)

In regard to shocker settings I am using my Spax shocks set at "1" (i.e. first click past the starting point) nowhere near your suggested maximum and at that setting are ideal for road use, and far more comfortable than the sloppy originals, so with luck will not need to do any reinforcing of the wheel arches.

I will check out the rest of the suspension in the next couple of weeks to ascertain if the ARB links or something else is the cause of the noise.
Phil Stafford

This thread was discussed between 06/03/2006 and 16/03/2006

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