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MG MGF Technical - Smoke

Had my 6 year service on Tuesday everything fine. Had a little play last night trying to test out the old 0-60 in seconds theory. Parked up and say smoking coing from the engine and coolant pissing out the botttom. Got the mechanic to have a look today and he thinks it sounds like a burst hose.

Tell me this does not sound like the HG.

Any ideas?
Neil

Check the dipstick for mayo. That's the first step.
Paul

Er, how is it relavant what the mechanic has got in his sandwiches?:)
Chris

Sorry, this does sound very worryingly like a HGF :o(

All usual tests need to be performed, such as the pressure test of the cooling system, and ensuring that the expansion tank is not full of CO/ HCs.

See also http://www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/hgf_diagnosis.htm
Rob Bell

Neil,
Could be burst hose, but could be HGF (a very familiar experience).

Did they change the coolant at the 6 year service (I believe it's on the sheet). If so, demand foc HG replacement due incorrect bleeding following coolant change.

Paul
Paul Lane

Just spoke to the mechanic. He said this is something he has never come across. He has described it as an External leak of the HG. A hole the size of a pin has formed above the alternator. Has the happened to anyone else or is this common. Sounds like to me this is a costly one.
Neil

>>Just spoke to the mechanic. He said this is something he has never come across. He has described it as an External leak of the HG. A hole the size of a pin has formed above the alternator. Has the happened to anyone else or is this common. Sounds like to me this is a costly one. <<

Nope, one of the commonest areas for HGF I'm affraid. Jon gave me a picture of his HG 'pee-ing' all over the alternator! See illustration on http://www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/hgf_diagnosis.htm

Sorry to hear the bad news. :o(
Rob Bell

and Paulo had one exactly the same last week.
Gareth

However,

Was it an MG Dealer? If the guy's not that familiar with the 'F' and done the coolant change incorrectly, that'll be the cause. A bit suspect that it blew the day after you had the change done.

As for expensive, shouldn't cost you anything as IMHO they've made the mistake. Could be coincidence, but v unlikely I think.

Now if you could get a tape-recorded explanation from the mechanic on how they bled the coolant system...

Leigh
Leigh

Just recently we have had a couple of cases where the thermostat has failed and remained shut causing excessive pressure in the system, it is possible this has happened and forced out the gasket at this point, it is a common area of failure. Could also explain HGF if the thermostat is working intermitantly and causing pressure build up on a regular basis then eventually finding the weak spot.If the engine hasen't warmed up before doing a 0-60 could raise the pressure rapidly as the circuit is smaller.Oops.HTH.
Mike.
mike

Hi Neil.

Sorry to say it IS a HGF. Leaking above the alternator, which is the classic place for them to fail :-( (see the picture Rob pointed to - its in exactly the place)

I went in to Mel's tonight on my way home to book our Astra in for a service and he showed me your car. He pressurised the cooling system and out squirted the coolant....

The other K series HGF's he has seen have all been "internal" (I know he did a 214 a while back that gone internally).

One other thing I noticed was that the clip on one of the main hoses out of the engine was "non-standard" (a Jubilee clip) - so SOMEONE has messed with the cooling system before you bought the car. Maybe it has leaked at some stage in the past? Did whoever fitted that clip bleed it properly - you'll probably never know, unfortunately.

He didn't do anything to the coolant during the service beyond visually checking the level (I asked him - it crossed my mind too!), so it wasn't an "incorrect bleeding". So I think it is in the "coincidence" zone.

You might get him to check that the expansion bottle cap has a "white dot" while he's about it, and that the undercar pipes are still good as its a '96 car and he's got the coolant out anyway (and they're relatively cheap - Mike does alloy ones that should last even longer too)... He is going to "tap" the pins in the water pump too (as Mike suggested following his problems this week). Is there any evidence that it's had a new cam belt in the service book/records, if not then get it done too at the same time as the car's 6 years old and its overdue...

Knowing the state of MGR parts supply at the moment, you might suggest he calls mike (Satur) or Malcolm Gammons (who he knows!) if he can't source a kit locally. That assumes you're going to get him to do it...

Nice looking car, BTW. Let me know when you're coming up to get it, and pop in for a cuppa!

Not what you needed to know...

Neil.
NNW49 - 97VVC
Neil

Thanks Neil. Mel told me he might call you.

I am probably popping over there after work to get a breakdown of what is happening. More than likely about 5.50pm if you are around.
Neil


Hi Neil,
IMO at some VIN-numbers there WAS a mix of "Rover-clips" and Jubilee-clips. At least on mine (import from Germany) and other "F"´s bought from dealer here in Sweden... Sorry to hear about the HGF - but clearly You have a good case to get the new gasket free or at least a big discount ? The only "Catch 22" is that seemingly no dealer has any gaskets + dowels at the time or has it improved on spareparts ?

Regards , Carl.
Carl

>IMO at some VIN-numbers there WAS a mix of "Rover-clips"

Obviously still valid. Some at my 1999 made are cheap small jubilee.
May be due to filling and bleeding in the factory ?
Dieter Koennecke

My 1998 car that I bought new also had a few jubilee clips.
Spyros Papageorghiou

Sorry I missed you, Neil. Out "entertaining the crowds and HRH" in Marlow on Friday!

Drop me a note before you pop in to pick it up (preferably the day before so I get time to see it) - remove the spam from the quoted email address.

Is Mel doing it? He replaced the gaskit on our Astra last summer and its been fine since (including getting the head skimmed to ensure flatness). The Astra failed "internally", so was much harder to diagnose.

There was evidence of "luminous green" around the pipe with the jubilee clip (on the spiggot) - and the clip didn't look that "weathered", which also contributed to my thinking it wasn't a 6-year-old fitting...

Mel's not that convinced about the wisdom of the jiggle valve either. Other people on the BBS (Roger) have reported that they stick. Mel reports they were removed from the cup car engines in the second season, and believes they were taken out of the production cars in later production too. In case you don't know, its a valve in a return pipe that is supposed to allow air to return to the header tank, but stop water taking the "easy" route.

Let us know how it goes...

Neil. (there's getting to be too many of us about :-) )
Neil

I spoke to Mel last week to try and get some idea of costs. Neil - How much do you reckon this is going to set me back roughly?
Neil

I don't know how much it'll cost, to be honest.

Others will be able to give you and idea how many hours work it is and then you can multiply it by the rate for yourself.

He charged about £350 to do the Astra (from what I remember - without finding the bill), but I suspect the F might take a bit longer as access isn't so easy.

Neil
Neil

Hmmm,

Wonder why Mel didn't do the coolant change though, as it was due on that service. Moot point I suppose, but maybe worth remembering for anyone else thinking about taking their car to a non-MGR garage, that they may not be aware of all the points to be covered in that service.

If the MGR dealer had done the service (and the coolant change), and the gasket failed, you would probably have been able to argue the coolant change was the cause of the problem (even though it obviously would not have been)!

Bad luck, but hopefully you can be back on the road quickly.

Leigh
Leigh

This thread was discussed between 09/05/2002 and 13/05/2002

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