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MG MGF Technical - Sounds Interesting...

Hi Ladies and Gents,

I am just looking into ICE upgrades for my 98MK1 MGF and and confused by the myriad of possible speakers and configurations I could put in the ol' MG! :)

When comparing speakers I understand what Frequency Range means and Power but what does "Sensitivity" or "Efficiency" mean? For example, is 92db better or worse than 89db?

Here's what I'm thinking of...

1) Sony CDX-DAB6650 head unit with a DAB aerial splitter so I can get DAB broadcasts using the standard MGF aerial.

2) Clarion SRV303 Active Sub mounted just behind the passenger seat to give me some much needed bass.

3) Something like Infinity Reference 6500CS 16.5cm component door speakers with seperate tweeters mounted on the door card just below the wing mirrors.

4) Dynamat the doors.

Any pointers or bits of info would be mucho appreciato!

Thanks,

Nick
Nick Atkins

...."When comparing speakers I understand what Frequency Range means and Power but what does "Sensitivity" or "Efficiency" mean? For example, is 92db better or worse than 89db?"...

I think it is a measure of how loud a speaker is when given a certain power input.ie a speaker rated at 92db is louder than one rated at 89db when all other settings on the amp are the same.The 92db ones are more sensitive in that it takes less power to give the same sound level (volume),although I could be wrong. HTH
Pete

All these quoted specifications are measured under laboratory conditions.

In the real world, the important things are;

1. How much do you want to spend?
2. How does the system sound to you?
3. How cool does it look?

IMHO

Sam

Sam Murray

>All these quoted specifications are measured under
>laboratory conditions.

That doesn't mean they are invalid, perhaps invalid on their own but very useful when compareing one with another.
Also remomber the dB is a log scale, so what appears to be a small change in number is a large change in actual output, 80 dB is _half_ as loud as 90 dB
Will Munns

Have a look at VIBE gear as it is highly rated (I can vouch for it) and is vv good value for money as are FOCAL which are also highly rated but expensive its down to personal preference after all!!!

Rick
R P Earle

Rear speakers make a difference. Either nicked from a MY2000/FT (you'll want to replace the actual speakers) or DIY your own combination. There are examples all over the place.

John
JohnB

If you;re going to use 6x4's I would try to get a bulkhead and speakerboxes from a breaker - after you have gone to the expense of buying the speakers, the grills and the hours of cutting and shaping, you still won't have as good looking a system, and the lack of speaker boxes will reduce the range of the speakers.

Trust me, I did it my way (and I should have done the above)
Will Munns

My DIY effort looks great Will, i used the red leather covering as part of my MS retrim to hide the edges of the cut outs and then fitted MS FX aluminium speaker covers over the holes to hide the work further. MS speakers in the standard F/TF speaker box completes the conversion.

Looks good (IMO much better than the standard black plastic affair) and sounds good too.

SF
SF

Hi Nick,

In my opinion, if you are going to get the rear speaker housings, then the very best speakers you can get for these are a set of Polk Momo MMC460's. They are components rather than co-axials and the sound clarity is far better than anything else I looked at (and I pretty much searched every 4x6 available).
The box does need some slight cutting to allow for the deeper cone but nothing too tricky!

http://www.polkaudio.com/caraudio/products/speakers/oval/mmc460/

I'm currently running these from the head unit with an amp running some Rockford Fosgate 6.5" components up front. Huge improvement over standard!!

HTH

Kris
Kris Ford

SF:
OK, I'll beleive that, but how much did it cost you?

Nick is asking about the black grills, so he's looking for a 'standard' look.
Will Munns

Great info guys! Thanks... :)

I had thought about getting the speaker box and T-bar from a MKII until I actually tried to find one...the speaker box isn't too hard to find but the standard T-bar cover with speaker grill is like Rocking Horse s**t!

I was reading an archive article from Rob Bell and Sarah in Bristol and they were saying that the rear speakers don't seem to make much difference. They said that the sound stage should really come from in front of you as your ears are more used to that and a good quality set of door speakers makes the greatest difference.

It's bass that can come from anywhere so that's why I was thinking about the Clarion Active sub behind the passenger seat.

What does everyone think about component front speakers over coaxial ones? What's the big difference anyway as I've seen articles that recommend you mount the tweeters as close to the woofers as you can?!

Cheers,

Nick
Nick Atkins

Hi Nick,

Basically, in a nutshell, bearing in mind that sound is waves and that your mid and tweeter are sending out two different patterns of waves at the same time, mounting the tweeter on top of the mid-range will never be as clear as sending out two seperate signals independantly.

Imagine it like this:

Co-axial waves - Mid+Tweet
(c(c(c(c(c - both signals mixed

Component waves - Mid next to Tweet
((((((((
cccccccc - seperate, but still reaching you at the same time.

HTH.
Kris

And if you can afford rear speakers then I would definitely recommend having them.

You'll be amazed at which frequencies you'll miss out on not having rear fill.
Even if you run your fader slightly higher to the front, as the speakers are so close to your ears, they provide a nice surround sound sensation.
Kris

For the rcord this is the system being run in mine and sounds very 'crisp' and 'clean'. This challanges most 4 speaker systems.


Sony CDX MP70 head unit.
Infinity 62.5I speakers with sound deadening.
JL Audio 8" ported sub.
2 x Profile 2 amps(one for speakers and 1 for sub).

Good luck with your install and I hope you have plenty of idea's!

Cheers,
Duncs.



DJC Dorrell

Nick, when I was looking into an active Sub I spoke to a couple of car audio places (including the one that Sarah worked at) and they both said I was likely to be disappointed by the bass response from that kind of setup. I admit I didn't pursue it then, but I'd be inclined to find somewhere that would let you try one out in your car before parting with cash. The advice seemed to be to spend the money on better speakers in the existing locations. At which point I turned my attention to the induction system and now I don't often have the music playing ;o)
Mike Hankin

I confirm rear speakers make a huge difference. I fitted them (5" Jensen's) myself on my previous F and honestly the result was pretty good
Dynamat in the doors improves things too. That's not difficult because the standard setup is VERY poor, the door panel & inner door card vibrate even at low volume.
I still have to do it in my TF... but it takes about half a day :-(

Fabrice

Err, hate to rain on your parade and respect to all who wish to go down the ICE route, but I am keeping the original radio cassette for the time being. It is never used as I spend my time listening to the engine ... now that makes me smile ...

Sometimes wonder about alternative uses for the space currently taken by the unused radio. You know; spare cubby, sat-nav, rocket launcher controls, that sort of thing ...

[There IS always one is'nt there :-) !]

Chris
Chris Reeves

>> I was reading an archive article from Rob Bell and Sarah in Bristol and they were saying that the rear speakers don't seem to make much difference. They said that the sound stage should really come from in front of you as your ears are more used to that and a good quality set of door speakers makes the greatest difference. <<

Sarah really knows her onions where it comes to ICE and speaker installations. What she says is undoubtably true too - and having heard her ICE set up (MGF04 IIRC) - it was simply awsome.

Fitting speakers behind the seats is, however, remarkably effective - something you really come to appreciate when motoring with the roof down. You get good bass and particularly mid-range fill in. But without doubt, you want all the high frequencies coming from infront - that'll give you the stereo imaging that you hanker for. :o)
Rob Bell

I have tried a few different set-ups in my 3 Fs over the years, and by far the best improvement was an active sub behind the passenger seat. Even with standard door and T-bar speakers there was a significant improvement in sound quality. You don't realised how many frequencies the standard speakers can't produce until fit something that can produce them.
The Active Sub I use is an Alpine SWD2000, which comes complete with amp and wiring (inc quick release connectors which allow you to remove the whole thing in seconds). I got it from Bass Junkies in Wolverhampton (10mins from MGF Centre) and they let me ‘try it for size’ in the car before I handed over any money. You loose around 5-6" of travel on the seat, but if like me, you rarely carry passengers then its not a problem. It could be moved to the footwell if it was a problem.
Its invisible from the outside of the car when to hood is up, unlike subs mounted in the footwell or between the seats. This was a concern for me as I didn't want it to be visible which would tempt someone to slash the hood and nick it.

Head unit chose also plays a significant part in the sound quality. I suggest you go to your local ICE shop and have a listen to a few different makes before deciding on one. I ended up choosing an Alpine, as I didn’t want all the flashy looks, and features that are useless 99% of the time that a lot of manufacturers like to fit to make there products attractive to the Nova driving brigade. TBO I was quite disappointed in the sound quality of some of the units from the big names like Sony, Kenwood, Pioneer Etc. It’s really down to personal preference but the Alpine units sounded the best to me, with Panasonic a close second. Most Alpine units also have a separate output for subs, and a sub level control, so you can alter the amount of bass independently of the other speaker settings. My unit also has time correction, which is very useful in a TF as it allows you to correct to the fact the rear speakers are a lot closer to you then the fronts, and ensures that the sounds from all the speakers reach your ears at the same time, giving a great sound stage.
I have since upgraded the door and T-bar speakers with relatively cheap coaxials. I found there was no need to spend a fortune on these, or go for components as the head unit and sub combination made up for it.
IMO there is so substitute for a sub. You can spend hundreds on buying top quality component door speakers, but there still wont produce the low frequencies even a cheap sub will due to there small size.

I have a spare MK2 T-bar, but its Smokestone (the grey-ish finish found in TF's) and has 4 holes in the top for MS Boxer roll hoops, so probably not much use to you?
Steve White

I must agree that the speaker behind the seat position is good in the *F* - I do not have the radio/ICE there but my Sat Nav speaker and I can hear her dulcet tones even at high motorway speeds - hood down or up.
Ted Newman

Thanks for all your inputs guys! :)

I think I'll have the the head unit and the fronts done and see what difference that makes to work out if I need to go down the route of finding a rear parcel cover thingy with the speaker grilles.

Steve, thanks for the offer but I have a 98 VVC MKI with a black leather interior so I'd probably need a MKII one. I will also fit the Clarion active sub as it is 20mm thinner than the alpine one and I have heard them both in the store and they both sound good. I am going to mount it vertically against the firewall behind the passenger seat so I was wondering how you fixed it? Did you use velcro or some kind of bracket because I'm a bit worried about screwing anything into there because of the fuel tank (Although the CD changer is currently screwed in there!)

Thanks again chaps!

Nick
Nick Atkins

I've left all the speakers as they were... just added a JVC KD-AVX1 DVD/CD Receiver with 3-inch colour monitor. I also added their DAB receiver too. It's fab. Driving down to Devon with my girlfriend we (sorry I mean SHE) can watch a DVD movie, or listen to Virgin radio all the way there on DAB or even listen to gigaMP3. That's a DVD with 35 albums of music on it! All for under 500quid!
Now all I need is the rear facing camera on the AV input for reversing with the milky softtop! Forget parking sensors.. a 3 inch TV screen with remote camera... now THAT's the way forward!! (or is that backward - ed?) camera and fitting 150 quid!

Simon K
Simon Knight

This thread was discussed between 16/11/2005 and 23/11/2005

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