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MG MGF Technical - Steering/MOT Problems

Hi all,
Heres my situation. I had my MOT today on a 98 VVC. It failed on the following:

Offside front track rod end ball joint has excessive play
Power steering - (pulls to the left)

Track rod is due to be fixed tomorrow at a different garage. The MOT tester was quick to suggest it was the steering column that needed replacing for the power steering. After I came out of shock from the price mentioned (£939+VAT) I had a good search of the archives and now have a few questions.

If I remove the EPAS fuse, the car drives straight. Does this definately rule out the track rod being the fault as if this was faulty it would effect PAS and non PAS?

I have cleaned the PAS contacts as suggested, with no joy.

Can I remove the fuse just to get it through the MOT? or does the EPAS have to be functioning to pass an MOT? and is the car pulling to the left classed as a major problem? It is only at crawling speeds and does not affect steering when braking.

I have spoke to MGF centre who were extremely helpful, mentioning their second hand column(£125 + VAT), but as I'm 2 hours or so away, it could be a bit awkaward to get there.

Thanks for all your help
Andy



Andy B

contact rob bell he has the photos to the job you need the steering
good luck darren
darren jeffery

Hi Andy,

Interesting question... I can't see anything in the UKMOT.com notes that refer to the operation of the EPAS being something that is tested. Having it decommissioned does not detract from the basic function of the steering, i.e. the ability to change direction. However there are stipulations about 'if fitted', so they might insist that only if you removed the EPAS ECU and changed the steering column for a non-EPAS version could they class EPAS as being 'not fitted'.

I'm taking one of my cars for an MOT tomorrow, I'll ask the tester a hypothetical question.
Mike Hankin

Removing the fuse will get you through the MoT, as the steering will no longer pull to the left. :o)

The fact that the problem disappears when the fuse is removed is significant - it isn't anything else mechanical that is causing the problem.

As Darren says, the instructions for re-setting the steering column, as described by Keith and recently performed by Darren are now on my website: http://www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/group2/common_problems/epas_reset/index.htm

MG Rover regard this part as a non-serviceable item - presumably because they're worried that people will not be able to centre the torque sensor correctly - or indeed are worried that bolts are not done up correctly after wards leading to movement of the torque sensor and severe self steering. Therefore proceed carefully and ensure everything is torqued up correctly afterwards and the adjustment slots filled with hot melt glue afterwards.

HTH
Rob Bell

Thanks for the help and replies.

As it stands now, the car is currently being repaired for the other MOT failed areas, I will mention an MOT without power steering, but another garage said that if the car has power steering installed, it must work.

I will most likely have to take it to the MGF centre for a new column (2nd hand) as those instructions are unfortunately beyond my mechanical/electrical ability.

Thanks again
Andy B

Andy, see to that you get the old column back home as it IS a fairly simple fix.There is a certain value in the old one . This of course if you don´t get a good trade in price...;O)
Carl

Andy, the tester I spoke to confirmed that too - if fitted, the EPAS must either be working. Kind of a shame, otherwise Rob's EPAS bypass switch would have been a very effective workaround.
Mike Hankin

Just had the car back and a 2nd confirmation that a new steering column is needed. Rang the MGFCentre who to my horror have now sold out!

I will now to wait until they get one in and until then, look forward to life catching a train. I'm devastated.
Andy B

MoT tester may not know whether your car has EPAS or not? Certainly, standard 1.8i were sold without EPAS (it was an optional extra). Depends on whether the MoT computer system records whether your car has EPAS or not.

Therefore I would suggest unplugging the EPAS and trying another test centre until you can source a new steering column (keep the original, I know we'd like to have it for study!)
Rob Bell

Ok, I've been trying to source a new column. It would be helpful if someone could tell me the difference between part QMB102270 and part QMB100870. My car is a 1998 VVC if that affects the choice?

Thanks
Andy B

QMB100870 is the steering column without height adjustment, whereas QMB102270 is the same part, but with steering height adjustment :o) (Source: Dieter's on-line epc: http://www.mgfcar.de/epc)
Rob Bell

Thanks for the reply. As I have absolutely no knowledge of this whatsoever, can I correctly assume that I will require QMB100870 as I cant adjust my steering height? It is a 98 VVC.

Thanks
Andy B

That's right Andy - only MY2000 (Mk2) MGFs (from late 1999 on) have the adjustable steering column.

I would imagine that it would be perfectly possible to fit a later steering column to an earlier car - but you may need the steering column trim as well to clear the adjustment handle.
Rob Bell

Thanks (again!), ok, my final batch of questions regarding all this:

1. Is the torque sensor, which I supsect is at fault, part of the steering column (as in a new one will contain a correctly set sensor)

2. How long should it take a garage to swap the columns over and would they require any specialist skills?

Think that should cover it all

Thanks
Andy B

Rob, Didn't you fit the new style coloum to your older car to get the TF feel?

The TRE will not effect the car 'self steering' but is a diffrent test and not related.

The MOT garage now has to put failures in the log, so every garage can see that the car has failed on EPAS.

removing the fuse lights up a big red light on the dash, but removing the plug to the epas (remove the glovebox to see) results in a car with no warning lights and no EPAS.

_ROB'S_ epas bypass switch, Pah, all that work and no recognition!

I leave the country for like 3 days and you've all forgotten me!
Will Munns

Who are you? ;o) Sorry, couldn't resist Will!!! How did you find China?

Andy, the new steering column comes complete with the assistance motor and torque sensor, so yes, the problem will be solved with a new item.

Fitting should be pretty straightforward - although Dieter can probably tell us more. There are a couple of retaining that shear under impact which you have to be careful with to avoid damage, and you also need to remove the ignition barrel from your old steering column to insert into the new (or else you'll have more than one key!) - so all in all, a reasonable amount of work. Probably 2 hours labour?

Will, no, I just replaced the steering rack - the column was left as per original :o)

And the link to WILL'S EPAS bypass switch: http://www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/group2/DIY/epas/epas_bypass.htm
Which reminds me, I have more pictures and words of explanation for this page - must get around to updating it! :o)
Rob Bell

My F suffers from the dame problem Andy B.

At the last MOT I removed the EPAS fuse, which results in an EPAS warning light on the dash, and the car passed it's MOT.

My understanding being that it is not tested as it has been made inoperation. That is, I have chosen to remove the EPAS fucntionality, therefore there is not need to ensure it works because not only can it not work it also cannot interfere with the operation of the the car.

Of course...

The MOT system is far from consistent, and you may need to find a sympathetic MOT centre.

Anyway, hope that helps. I plan on recalibrating my torque sensors before the next MOT. Oh, did I say "I plan" to do it? I think I mean I know a man who can. :-)

d.
d.

< The MOT system is far from consistent, and you may need to find a sympathetic MOT centre. >

Indeed! - my MGF passed with this EPAS fault last month...

Chris.

ps. fault now fixed - post coming soon on this...
Chris Tromans

DIY guide to re-setting the torque sensor, mentioned earlier in the thread: http://www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/group2/common_problems/epas_reset/index.htm

How did you manage to fix yours Chris?
Rob Bell

I just got off the plane it it was there.

Good writeup of the procedure BTW
Will Munns

That's a cracking write up.Makes the job seem quite simple.Hopefully I'll not have to do it :).Do you wonder if any garages have been doing this but charging for the column?
Pete

Well I've managed to find a skilled DIY enthusiast to help me so I'm going to attempt to correct the torque sensor on Sunday. I'm really hopeful as I not only have what appears to be an excellent guide but also other stories of similar success.

Oh well, fingers crossed!

I'm also looking forward to Chris' post about his fix
Andy B

Hi Guys
Thankyou thankyou thankyou and what great timing!
I only just email Darren today about this and I'd thought I would just take a late night squizz at the threads and low and behold YEHAA there it was....gods gift to fixing up this damn steering problem.
My prayers have been answered. Thankyou sooo much you guys are the best.
Cheers Sue
Sue Wilson

I have the same problem with mine, steers to the left at low speeds.

Had the car MOT’d today and I chanced my arm and took the fuse out, sailed though, although the garage did say to my wife when she picked it up “can you tell your husband that there is a red light on, but we did not drive it fare so it may go out when you drive it” HA HA!
A Crichton

Nice one will, with apologies to Viv!
C.R.B. Simeon

>> I just got off the plane it it was there. <<

ROLFMAO - jeepers, that was lucky. Saves having to search behind the sofa...

Good luck with the EPAS reset - Keith's instructions are superb - so good I am almost tempted to take the steering column apart and have a play even though I have no problem! LOL

Just be careful that the sensor is securely mounted afterwards, and retained in position with fresh hot-melt glue (or similar).
Rob Bell

Yup it's wet and cold right now and i've just got home from work - where I found out that my umbrella does not stop heavy rain :-(

I will try to see some of Shanghai at the weekend, but if it's this grim I may well stay inside
Will Munns

Ok, I'm now back from my friends house and am pleased to say that the work carried out has fixed the problem and all it cost me was a bottle of whiskey!

All in all, it took about 2 hours (plus an extra hour to nip to town to buy some smaller wire spades). Bit of a scare early on when we realised that my column had 6 wires rather than the 4 mentioned in the guide but we realised there were an additional 5v and ground for the other sensor. Couple of tweaks later and we were good to go. Steering feels a bit stiffer turning left than it does right but its ok and it drives straight as an arrow.

Thanks to Rob, Keith and Darren for the guide and to all the others who contributed to this thread. I just have to hope the garage will put it through the MOT first thing Monday morning otherwise I will have to get the train to uni, fingers crossed.
Andy B

My car just sailed through the MOT with this fault this morning.
Although he gave the steering a good check it was all done with the ignition off so he never noticed.
I do intend having the fault fixed soon though.
ninja

Great result Andy :o)

Ninja, your experience affirms what I thought: you actually really need to know MGFs in order to properly assess the steering - so if you have this problem and don't have time to reset the sensor prior to the MoT, pull the fuse, or better still, the ECU connector Will mentioned, before the test, and the car will almost certainly pass :o)
Rob Bell

This thread was discussed between 09/05/2006 and 13/05/2006

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