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MG MGF Technical - SUMMER 2003, Ice Cream or HGF?

Hi everyone! Hope you are enjoyed your drive in the sunshine today!

I have my baby in Sthlm, Sweden for the moment. During Easter, I think a HGF occured. The glucose coolant water container just emptied itself. And also, when being home in the garage, I tried pouring water in the container. It just went straight through, dripping or rather flowing down under the car. (right end of the car, behind the driver seat, very close to the wheel so very hard to see where it was dripping from.)

Please, do anyone have pics or experience with this prob? The Headgasket seems to be intact. When I was driving, I saw white smoke, pulled over instantly. The glucose was still in the container at that point, but was dripping out under the car.

Is it an HGF? professionals, help me. Please. Obi-Wan kenobi, your my only hope.

If HGF, is it enough buying the £25 Head gasket bracket from MS? or which parts shall I spend my LEA loan on?

See ya guys, ladies!

Have a nice summer!

Philip, BATH - Stockholm
Fubu_box

Philip,

> >Please, do anyone have pics or experience with this prob?

Pics no (check Dieter's or Rob's site), but experience yes, I'm afraid.

Unfortunately, this does sound just like an HGF where the coolant leaks from the head to the outside world - spurting out just above the alternator. If you remove the engine cover you should be able to see the offending leak just below the exhaust manifold area - probably visible between the first and second pipes from the right hand side.

It's worth taking the engine cover off to check this, as it is also possible that you simply have a split hose, although this is likely to spray coolant all over the engine and the leak will appear more central to the engine rather than the right hand side as you explain.

When checking you will, of course, need to run the engine, but if you ensure the coolant bottle never runs dry you should be OK. Nevertheless only run the engine a couple of minutes to check the source of the leak.

If you do have this type of HGF - be thankful. It is the cleanest and simplest to repair, although knowing why this type occurs is still somewhat of a mystery.

I've had this type of HGF and another type, where oil and water mix and contaminate your entire engine - very messy and time consuming to clear up!

HTH

Dave
Dave

You really need to find out where the water is comming from, get a torch.
If the water is comming from block over the alternator or the oil is milky then it's HGF, if the water is comming from a unclipped hose, then you have a cheap repair (remember to blead correctly).

See the RAVE thread for a link to the Lotus Elise pdf which has all the K-engine manual in if you want to do it yourself.

Good Luck.
Will Munns

FUBU, Sorry to be the bearer etc. but it sounds like the classic HGF symptoms of the water jacket seal on the HG has blown allowing coolant to leak out , under pressure it hits the exhaust downpipe giving you clouds of white Steam.
If you haven't overheated the engine during this then fingers x'ed it should only be the Gasket that needs replacing, but all the other checks are required as well.
Plenty of info on this in the archives and on Deiters wonderful site.
Mike
Mike


Thanks guys,for such a quick response.
I have opened the engine cover, can hover not locate the leak from above. To be honest it is just inside the engine bay fan, hard to explain. right side, .. and it feels like it is dripping from an torn-off hose I would say. The white smoke came from the engine bay, I believe it was from the glucose "spraying" the "hot" engine. (comedian)

As I mentioned, I stopped the car when still having coolant in the container. approx. 16 seconds after I first saw the smoke. * Was on a high speed bridge.
So, I believe the engine will not be overheated. It sounded normally when starting it again in the garage.

ANyway, I will be home in Sweden on the 17th. Then I will take pictures and show them to you.
Thanks,.

Phil
Fubu_box

>and it feels like it is dripping from an torn-off hose
Sounds good, does it drain away immediatly in even a cold engine, if so then I would suspect a hose, do get under the car and have a look

>ANyway, I will be home in Sweden on the 17th.

You're getting a hire car and being towed back?

Good luck

Will
Will Munns

I maybe should have mentioned, that the back of the car, exhaust and the boot, where sprayed with the coolant liquid.

"It's worth taking the engine cover off to check this, as it is also possible that you simply have a split hose, although this is likely to spray coolant all over the engine and the leak will appear more central to the engine rather than the right hand side as you explain."

That is what I think it is.!



Fubu_box

Phil,

> >I have opened the engine cover

You do mean the 'real' engine cover under your parcel shelf/hood that's bolted down don't you and not just the grille in the boot? :-) Sorry to question your understanding, but you won't see anything from the boot grille.

> >To be honest it is just inside the engine bay fan, hard to explain. right side

That sounds like the 'above the alternator' HGF area. The engine hoses are more central to left hand side of the engine.

The leak's origin is not really visible, but you can see the coolant dripping down underneath the exhaust manifold, between the first couple of pipes.

> >I stopped the car when still having coolant in the container. approx. 16 seconds after I first saw the smoke.

Well done - you should be OK.

Dave
Dave

Should have added, that the hoses are easily visible with the engine cover off and any leak from these should be obvious.

Dave
Dave

I will be "running" home, as I am hunted by the LEA tax collector. Well, it is quite hard to locate the hose, as it it stricly behind the rear tyre, below the right side in the enginebay of the driver side. Was not strong enough to lift it by myself and quick enough to look at it.

Fubu_box

FUBU, with the hood pulled forward and the engine bay inspection cover removed, top up the header tank and then look for coolant escaping from just under the exhaust manifold on the right side of the engine above the alternator. This is the most usual place for it to go, (I've been there, as has many others), M2 VJN, Yellow Trophy (MY2001)
Mike
Mike

yep, engine cover, under the softtop stuff, lift the metal cover, I was looking at the engine. could see most of it, both through boot, and through engine bay stuff.

Fubu_box

well, for me, being an amateur, I do not know where the alternator xterminator or the exhaust manifolds are.
I just know, the leak is flowing out below right side of car. close to the engine bay fan. Could not see any leak from anywhere else.
Fubu_box

http://www.mgfcar.de/alternator/index.htm
I went there, and I believe it might be leaking from below of this one... or is that impossible?
Fubu_box

Phil,

Try this http://www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/hgf_diagnosis.htm

look at picture D - the pipe you can see is the exhaust manifold. If it is the common 'above the alternator' HGF leak then you should see the coolant leaking from just below the first two of these pipes.

Dave

Dave

if you go here.

http://www.mgfcar.de/defects/engine1.jpg

It is just below the fan, top left on pic. Then go straight down. There it was.

It was impossible to see from above, there was some gadget in the way.
Fubu_box

is that from above the car, or below?
Fubu_box

Phil,

> >if you go here.

http://www.mgfcar.de/defects/engine1.jpg

> >It is just below the fan, top left on pic. Then go straight down. There it was.

Yes, that's the area alright.

Dave
Dave

Thanks for all your help Dave.
Hmm, well it is there the leak is at least. I have not seen from under the car, which means I am not certain it is from the gasket, according to your picture. However, if it was, what shall I do? I will take it to the mechanics. Shall I tell them to replace the HG ? The Swede mechanics does not have a lot of experience of this sweet MGFVVC. What shall I tell them?

Thanks

Phil!

Fubu_box

Phil,

Elsewhere on this BBS you'll find posts from Carl Blom in Sweden. He may be able to advise you on suitable specialists. Raise another thread and call it 'Calling Carl Blom - Sweden'. That should get his attention as long as you put it on the technical board.

Once a specialist gets to look at it they will be able to confirm whether it is an HGF, but it sounds very much like it, as I know of no coolant hoses on that side of the engine.

Dave
Dave

I suggest to let the mechanic choose the HG... if it fails again in a short period, it will be completely his responsibility... otherwise he will claim your provided gasket for the misery.

It's not a crime to collect enough technical data (revision of gaskets, bleeding procedures, etc.) and give it all to the technical expert.

Good luck
Erik

BTW this pic shows the *usual* location.
http://www.mgfcar.de/hgf/jf_HGF3.jpg

On top is a part of the alternator, on the left is the manifold.
To be spotted when you look down on the left at the alterantor in direction rear of the engine.
Dieter K.

Dave, I sent a mail on 3/5 to fubu about possible garages in the area as well as phone number to main MG Rover head office here in Sweden. Also help /advise on "good" dealers / garages can be sourced from out MG Car Club regional people. Name and phone number to that contact person in the Stockholm area was given as well.

BR, Carl.
Carl Blom

Well done Carl.

Good luck Phil. Let us know how you get on.

Dave
Dave

I certainly will Dave, thanks for your help.
Yep, Carl "Kalle" has already given me details on mechanics in Sweden. It was very helpful. However, as I am in the UK now, I want to investigate further on the HGF and get photos and more. So I will be prepared when getting back to Stockholm for the mechanics.

Hmm. I believe it is pouring out, even though the engine is not turned on. Also, would it really be possible, turning on the engine, if it was an HGF? Would not the air pressure or something leak out, making the engine to "die"?

P.S As I said before, I am not an mechanic, nor a proffessional engine knower, only had an 50cc Yamaha DTR Moped, so please do not laugh at my wanna-be mechanic theories... :)

Anyway, an HGF repair, like this... if the leakage was there, as shown on the pic (Link given above) , what kind of costs are we talking about? £00 or even (hope not) £000? £300 I would guess. or?




Anyway, cheers guys!

BYEBYE
Fubu_box

If the water pours stright thru then there is no need to run the engine to temp to see where it is leaking to!

It depends on how spectacually it blew to how large the hole for the water is, but you need someone to pour as you get wet under the car.
Will Munns

That my dad helped me with. + the taste of glucose (which is dangerous in large amounts, especially for animals) was quite tasty.

Anyway, I did not want to see the temp meter, just to see where the leak was.

The temp., I would say is unneccessary to measure at this stage, as all the coolant is gone, and the engine been turned off for a long time.

P Reg for an F is that 97?
R is 98 or not?

Bye bye Willy

Cheers

Philly
Fubu_box

This thread was discussed between 03/06/2003 and 04/06/2003

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