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MG MGF Technical - Suspension problem - F 'sunk'

Hi All,

Went to take the F out for a spin on Saturday to find that the right hand side (front & rear) had "sunk"! Last driven 7 days ago when it had no problems. Both wheel arches are now touching the tops of the tyres so it would appear to be undrivable, is that correct? Left side all normal. I last had the suspension pumped up in May '12 prior to driving it to Naples, Italy from UK. Questions: What should I check? I guess I need the suspension pumped up again - what is the correct fluid/gas and name of pump or tool? Please keep it simple as I will be checking it myself and then trying to get it repaired by an Italian mechanic! A long shot does anyone know of any European/Italian cars that have a similar set up? It might aid the translation process.

As ever many thanks

Elona

E J Davies

Hi Elona,

It's a Hydragas suspension system and will require pumping up as you say.

If it's a simple leak it may be a simple fix. If, however, you need a replacement Hydragas unit, it may be difficult for you to get one, as they are no longer manufactured and good second hand ones are hard to find.

Good luck!

Sam
Sam Murray

Hi Sam,

Thank you. No evidence of a fluid leak.

Thoughts?

Elona
E J Davies

There is no fluid, it's the gas which has escaped from the system.

If you can find a garage which specialises in UK cars, they might have experience of this type of suspension, but I'd be VERY surprised if they have a pump.
Sam Murray

We have a pump, we also recharge the gas provided the gas bag doesn't have a leak, but we are a little far away ...
Paul Walbran

Ok I'm a little confused - it happens a lot! In order to move the car do I need to pump fluid in or gas or both. When it was last pumped up in UK I'm pretty sure he used hydrolastic liquid.
Italian mechanic has had a look and believes he can locate a pump, but I need to know what he has to pump in.

Does this mean I definately have a leak or do they go down in time.

As ever many thanks

Elona
E J Davies

You need hydrogas fluid. It seems like you might need to adjust the suspension every couple of years. There are pumps for doing the job on Ebay UK.

There's plenty of information out there if you Google for it.

ANDREW WRIGHT

Andy,

Thank you. I have found a couple. If I have to replace the spheres does anyone recommend where to buy them or is it ebay pot luck.

As ever many thanks

Elona
E J Davies

It would appear that Dunlop owns the intellectual property rights and aren't interested in remanufacturing. If I remember correctly the TF went to springs because the only other car using Hydrogas was withdrawn from sale and Dunlop wanted to withdraw from the market.

It looks like it is pot luck on secondhand ones or change the subframes to TF and go for springs. In your case the former will be the best option.
ANDREW WRIGHT

Elona, there are loads of reputable breakers who can get second hand spheres in UK if that is what is needed (I know that doesn't help your immediate problem).
There must also be a few experienced outlets in Italy that do work on them as there are plenty of old minis and a select following for the MGF in Italy. I don't know what the clubs are called. Try these:
http://www.mg-cars.org.uk/clubs/clubit.html
Have you come across this site before:
http://www.mgfcar.de/index.htm
Look up Hydragas in the index - it tells you everything you (or your mechanic!) need to know about what it is, how it works, how to fill/fix it, and with what.
It is a great shame that Dieter didn't buy MGR from BMW as he knows more about the products and is more interested than most of their erstwhile employees.
Charless

Charless,

Thank you. I have tried to open the link on several computers with no joy.

I ahve ordered the pump, so next problem, can anyone give me the recipe for the fluid and any other advice - remeber I am dealing with non English speaking Italians, so please keep it as simple as possible.

As ever many thanks

Elona
E J Davies

Hi Elona,

A quick Google search uncovered the following...


49% alcohol
49% distilled water
1% triethanolamine phosphate
1% sodium mercaptobenzothiazole

However, you can buy it ready made up from Ebay...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hydragas-hydrolastic-fluid-for-MGF-suspension-ride-height-adjustment-re-pressure-/251339440198
Sam Murray

Sorry about that! Dieter is doing some work on his sites according to the next thread "Dieter's website has it gone?".
Sam has the answer for you, the 1 percenters are just stabilisers/inhibitors but broadly a 50/50 mix of alcohol and water will do. It was designed to be a non lethal evaporating spillage at the roadside in the event of an accident. A light oil would have been a much better non corrosive liquid but would have left 'pollution' (allbeit a small quantity) in the unlikely event.
I think it a really good idea to equip yourself with the pump - which I have heard only good things about. When I built one for myself it cost a lot more than that for similar functionality!
Did you get any joy with the clubs?
I suspect if the RHS has suddenly dropped relative to the LHS there may be a small leak somewhere. They can leak only at very high pressure, vapourising without leaving a tell tale puddle at first. But Italians are nothing if not engineers so it should be doable. In the short term a 50/50 mix and temporary repair should be enough to get you back to experienced UK repairers and supplies.
Good luck and let us know how you get on!

Charless

All,

Pump arrived, used 50/50 antifreeze & distilled water. Now at the correct ride height (368 mm) all around. Driven and no change in height for 48 hrs.

As ever many thanks to all.

Regards

Elona

E J Davies

That sounds very promising. Hopefully the RHS had been unobtrusively sinking for a while and there is no damage - in which case you have the pump for the future!
It would be worth saving any fluid mix in a sealed container(non ferrous) and flushing the pump through with tap water as the mix is 'agressive' to metal parts which in turn can damage the seals.
Well engineered you!
Charless

Well done!
Sam Murray

All,

F remains at teh right ride height, however I have found evidence of a small fluid leak, rear RHS small amounts of fluid on garage floor. I am guessing the only way ahead is a sphere change-correct? mThe job looks complicated and reasonabley difficult - again am I correct?
I have means now to keep topping the system up until I can get it back to UK, is there anything else I should consider?

As ever many thanks

Elona

E J Davies

Elona,
Ooh tricky. When are you back in UK?, If soon, then topping up might be the best way. Either a pipe or a sphere change would both necessitate evacuating the system before refilling - which might be difficult where you are. If the leak is small and from a pipe, it might be possible to patch it with self annealing tape and a jubilee clip as a get-me-home. That is what I would try for. If it is the sphere itelf, they are fairly well sealed and can probably be topped up regularly to get-me-home. Make sure your breakdown relay/insurance is current before you set out!
What a pity, it seemed all good news earlier. I would definitely give it a go anyway, as provided your insurance is OK you have little to lose - and a broken bit was never going to be permanently repairable.
Best of luck,
Charles
Charless

Charles,

Thank you. I am not due back in UK, on a permanent basis, for 18-24 months. I will explore the pipe repair option, a real pity as here in South Italy it is a joy to drive, cannot remember when the top was last up! If I have to go for a full sphere change, how difficult a job is it? I will not be doing it!

As ever many thanks

Elona
E J Davies

Well, like anything - it is easy if you know how! I haven't had to to try it yet, but the bit I imagine you might struggle with is the evacuating of all air before refilling the system. Your pump is great for topping up fluid. But a replaced rear pipe or sphere might leave air trapped in the rear of the system unable to get out of the filler valve at the front. Nevertheless it would certainly be worth trying.
How about Italian F clubs and maybe old 'Innocenti' Mini clubs who will need access to similar hydrolastic equipment?
Charless

This thread was discussed between 23/09/2013 and 27/10/2013

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