MG-Cars.info

Welcome to our Site for MG, Triumph and Austin-Healey Car Information.

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG MGF Technical - The gearbox saga could soon be over...

Just got some great news from Roy - the final part of the jigsaw has just arrived (cheers Davey!): the PTP lightweight flywheel is being mated up to the replacement gearbox, along with an AP racing clutch, so hopefully my car will be coming together very very soon :o) I also asked them to grind down the exhaust manifold welds to improve gas flow - which will serve well until I source a decent 4-2-1 exhaust manifold :o)

Looking forward to getting my 'christmas present'! :oD
Rob Bell

Are we missing something here ? Why a new gearbox ?
/ Carl.
Carl Blom

Rob, no probs mate! :)

hopefully you'll be back on the road in time for the new year. Pleased everythings worked out ok and the wheel has arrived at techspeed in time. Look forward to hearing your views and thoughts on the set-up! :)
Davey

That's good news

be careful in the snow though

Neil

Cheers guys :o)
The timing of the flywheel's arrival was perfect Davey, cheers!
Carl - I'll post more when I have more details on the gearbox problem, but basically worn bulk rings, and possibly a couple of other problems :o(
Rob Bell

Yay! Got the car back before christmas - and am delighted that the car is back in one piece, and looking so good!!! :o)

Update on the gearbox problem Carl: the problem was thought to be baulk ring related, as these are intentionally soft so that they wear first. Unfortunately, it seems that the hubs on the gears/cones are even softer! :o( Result is that the teeth on the gear hubs have worn, and incredibly, the bulk rings remain in surprisingly good condition. Whilst bulk rings are cheap, the gear and hubs are not - and cost up to 100 quid each. As you may as well replace all 5 at the same time, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that this becomes uneconomical very quickly. BIG thanks therefore to the MGF Centre for their second hand box that prevented the bill from becoming a real Christmas nightmare...

Silver lining bits now: I also had the exhaust manifold tracts matched to the cylinder head ports (the internal welds were ground down), and I also had an AP racing clutch and PTP flywheel fitted.

Combination together makes for a nice improvement :o) Okay, we're not talking a huge difference here, but the throttle response is better, the engine pulls even more cleanly than before (and there wasn't really any problem before LOL), and interestingly, the engine seems more willing to rev beyond 5,500 rpm (where there used to be a very noticable drop off of torque). I think that this latter feature is attributable to the exhaust manifold mod.

All in all, well worth doing - but probably only in the context of a clutch swap in which all these components are accessible in any case...

Need to arrange another RR session in the new year, just to see how things have changed since the new mods... a bhp here and a lb.ft there all help on the track! ;o)
Rob Bell

I think the most important issue here is drivability. The lightened flywheel, race clutch and the manifold flowing will produce a few extra lb ft and perhaps a bhp or two but this isn't the main reason for doing this. The bit which most engine tuners and MaxPower readers miss is the drivability. A responsive, revvy easy to drive engine which is "loving it" will increase performance but probably more importantly increase the Fun thing, and this is the main reason why we have bought these cars ...and hung onto them for so long .

If we were really serious about performance we would take the F down to the nearest Vauxhall dealership and do a deal for the VX220Turbo which will literally blow the doors off our F's... but this isnt the point is it?

A well balanced revvy sweet F is going to be very hard to better in enjoyment terms, particularly when it is of you own making and you have developed the car over a period of 8 years or so, and you dont have to do the big loan/depreciation thing into the bargain.

Well done Rob sounds like a great motor
Neil

Rob, pleased to hear your happy with the results! just got to wait for my clutch to need replacing now so that i can get my wheel fitted too.And remember, your car's a *tad* lighter now aswell! ;)

Neil, some very good points there. Pretty much what i was going to add myself :P
Davey

Nice to hear that all went well and you are on the road again. Not so nice thou with the extensive wear on the wrong parts !! Surely there are some missing hardening issue here ? Any chance of pictures to Dieter so this can be recorded as another "feature" to be aware of ?
With the from Rover specified oil in the box I thought there would be no severe wear issues - not even if there are track-days included in the driving ;o). Happy New Year to all!
BR, Carl.
Carl Blom

Nice to hear your comments Rob.

Always wanted to know the advantages of those parts.
On RR shouldn't be much of a difference, but flat out on track the revs should go up immediatly.

Happy new year all.

Valter.
Valter

Carl, I'd taken my camera hoping to take some pix of the offending parts, but sadly, they'd already been thrown away by the time I arrived to collect the car :o( I agree though, the pattern of wear is an issue: curiously, Peugoet gearboxes suffer with the same problem...

Davey, have you recieved the cheque yet? When you fit your 'wheel, I think that you're going to be pleased with the result! :o)

Valter - agreed regarding the power: any change is likely to be down to the exhaust manifold work :o) But the flywheel has definitely had a positive effect upon the character of the engine :o)
Rob Bell

Rob, just want to get mine on now! :) however having only covered 40K, i might be waiting a while :/ or i may just have to "bring it forward" and do it early!

Have'nt recieved anything in the post as yet, when did you post it Rob?
Davey

Rob

I haven't been keeping up to date recently and have missed the symptoms to your cars gearbox problem. Mine has now covered 76k and the box works better than ever.

How did you know there was a problem?

(and can I use the same excuse to get an AP clutch and light flywheel:-))

Cheers
Neil
Neil Stothert

Posted before Christmas Davey :o0 Christmas post back-log perhaps? I suspect that it'll re-surface on the far side of new year... (Let me know if it's a no show, and I'll send another)

Neil, symptoms were an intermittent 'grunch' going into 3rd and 5th - typically on an upchange, worse when the gearbox was cold, and worse on hurried changes. Been there for about 12 months, but had been getting progressively worse... Ouch. Gearbox still functioned well, and was quiet, so no other evidence of a problem other than that evident problem with the synchromesh. Hey ho. Let's see how long it takes me to break the next gearbox!!!
Rob Bell

Rob ..yeah the clutch on the LabRat will need a change soon enough, feels dreadful but works...might be a warped plate, terminal wear or a bit of oil getting on the doings...whatever, it gives me an excuse...now I need to find out whether the flywheel for the 214 Labrat is the same as the one for an F.

I will get an F flywheel from...somewhere and have it adjusted when the job comes to change the clutch we will find out...if it fits then great if not then well we'll have o fit it to the F

so questions

where did you get the flywheel and the clutch from ?
Neil

Got the flywheel from Davey (it's a PTP item isn't it? Mind you, the chaps at Techspeed felt it was lighter than usual PTP fare - not sure????), and the clutch is an AP Racing competition item :o)

I happen to have my old flywheel in the boot - so if you need one for experimenting on prior to fitting tor the Lab Rat, let me know. ;o)

Will an MGF flywheel fit a 214? I think so - aren't all K-series flywheels the same??? Anyone with EPC should be able to answer that one ;o)
Rob Bell

Wow Rob

pls email me
Neil

for LabRat....have I gone bonkers?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2450001744&category=9886
Neil

Rob, speak of the devil! your letter arrived in the post this morning :) thx mate!

yup, the flywheels the PTP one, which you can get from http://www.race-speed.com

The OE flywheel must be some weight! even the PTP one feels "heavy" in your hands. Just goes to show why the f is the weight it is, MGR have had no regard whatsoever in thought of designing the car to be reasonably lightweight.
Davey

email away...

... Neil, you've just bought that rather grubby looking VVC? 8oO

Good on yer if you have!

Davey, makes you think doesn't it? The flywheel is just a boggo saloon car 'wheel - evidently no one thought to make a lighter weight version for their sports car (although that may have been a money-saving decision).
Might be possible to make the flywheel even lighter - but how light can you go I wonder???
Rob Bell

>>>rather grubby looking VVC
===looks like it's been in a major fire, hope not for the buyer's sake :-(
David S

Naa didnt buy it somebody else got there before I could 250 quid sounds cheap but yes you just dont know what you are getting into with secondhand engines and I would need to get all manner of things electric too.

Nevertheless it would make a storming Q car. But No I will stick with slightly more subtle and definiitely more wicked tuning of the 1.4 and chassis...we will see how it develops

Thanks to Rob I have a 48mm TB and his original flywheel which I will have cut down.

Neil

pulled the wheels of the Labrat...bloody solid front discs! although they feel pretty good.
So I have a feel about under the std 14" rims...guess what? very little space for the MGF std brakes and discs...so it goes on... no space without buying bigger wheels...sounds all too familiar doesnt it?

Neil

This thread was discussed between 22/12/2003 and 03/01/2004

MG MGF Technical index

This thread is from the archives. Join the live MG MGF Technical BBS now