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MG MGF Technical - Tyre Advice Please

My VVC has 215/40 ZR 16 all round. I recently made the mistake of being talked into putting Kuhmo tyres on the rear, with frightening handling problems. Now where ever I go I am being told that Goodyear GSD2's are hard to come buy and my best bet is to get rid of the car. Have checked the Tyre information pages but they are not much help with 215's. Anybody got any experience of this or advice please.

Many Thanks in anticipation.
Paul Smith

>> and my best bet is to get rid of the car <<

Just because you can't find tyres for it? Someone is having a real laugh at your expense Paul!!!

You can fit Goodyear GS-D3 215/40s all round - which is what I have, and am pretty pleased with them. No handling problems that I've been aware of - and that includes plenty of track use! :o)

A cheaper, but very good option, are Toyo Proxes T-1 in either R or S specification. Plenty of folks here have had experience with them, and all of it very positive, so these are probably what I'd go with if in your position.

More tyre information here: http://www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/group2/tyres/index.htm

Hope this helps
Rob Bell

Thanks Rob, I had read the technical papers and there is a warning there about Do Not Fit GS D3, has this been superseeded. I currently have 2 new Goodyear GS D2 on the rear and am looking to replace the front tyres can you mix D2 and D3, would that give me a problem, or would the Toyo be a better bet with the Goodyear. I had found on Motorway driving especially that with the Kuhmo's on the rear at 50mph on the inside lanes the car followed every rut going and was a very unstable.
Paul Smith

Ideally, I wouldn't risk trying to mix D2s and D3s. Many people have done this without problems, but enough have had worrying handling issues by mixing the two tyre types to sound a cautionary note.

If changing tyre type or brands, it is best practice to start with a clean slate, and replace all four tyres at the same time. This can work out a little expensive, but Toyos are significantly cheaper than the pricey Goodyear - and therefore is usually within financial reach.
Rob Bell

Yeah R888s ...they look brilliant
Proxes work well too

try www.mytyres.co.uk

Neil

Only last week I stuck on 2 F1, GSD3 in replacement for the rear GSD2's. I still have GSD2's on the front.

Given they are the same model, surely there is minimal risk in mixing, the front/back width difference must surely conpensate for any tiny adjustments in the new grip pattern/side wall strength ?

Only done about 200 miles in them so still suffering from the drifty effect at speed. Remember it well when I replaced with GSD-2's also, horrible. Also can feel that they are not so good as the 2's, the grip goes less progressively on tight bends etc

Charlie
Charlie Dodge

Paul, I had Michelin Pilot's all round and replaced the rears with Toyo T1s a few months back. Haven't noticed any detrimental differences in handling and the Toyo's were a damn sight cheaper!
Paul Bevan

Give them time Charlie - they are better than the 'D2s - but they don't look quite as nice ;o)
Rob Bell

>> Yeah R888s ...they look brilliant <<

Off topic - Neil - check out the Pirelli P-zero C - http://www.pirelli.com/en_42/this_is_pirelli/motorsport/motorsport_tyre_range/circuit/circuit.jhtml?s1=4200019&s2=4200068&s3=4500004

I have it on very good authority that these are just as good, if not better than the Toyo, and better news still, the sizes are better suited to the F: 195 and 205 available in the necessary 50% profile for 15" wheels, plus 205 on a 45% profile for 16"s - perfect!

The Darkside pulls once again on the purse strings! ;o)
Rob Bell

Hmm - interesting Rob - any idea on prices?
Dave Livingstone

For 16" rims? I don't know yet. For 15" rims, about 570 quid delivered from Silverline wheels and tyres for a full set of four IIRC.
Rob Bell

Am I reading that right - 570 quid for four tyres - if so that makes the SO2s look cheap! Or are you talking about some sort of rim + tyre package?
Dave Livingstone

S-02s are cheap in comparison! The P-zero C's are full-on track day tyres - notice how they are semi-slicks at the outer edges... nice.

But they are Pirelli, and that means that you are paying for the brand... But the tyre performance is said to be superb, wet or dry.

They come with 6.5mm of tread depth - it would be interesting to know how long they'd last on a MGF - but I dare say, no one would be able to tell you.
Rob Bell

My trophy came fitted with P zero nero tyres and I've no complaints whatsoever about them.
The rears are getting low on tread and when I checked a couple of weeks ago I think they were about £95 each, fitted, for the rears.
I'll certainly be replacing them with the same when they're done.
ninja

just for the record I've had no problems with Kumhos. I've been running them for the last 2 and half years
Bob Millar

I fitted Toyo all round back in May have i have to say i am been very impressed with them grip is great. Especially considering cost per unit etc.

John

I know some will disagree for very valid reasons but for what my opinion is worth do not try and save money buying Toyos. I was chuffed with myself for saving a few quid on a set of four but it turned out to be the most expensive mistake I have ever made. Although the handling in the dry was fine in the wet they became treacherous on my car with minimal feedback. After being accustomed to Goodyear GSD2s sending you a postcard before they start to break away it was a shock when the four Toyos fitted to my F couldn’t appear to decide where to go together. I was able to walk away from the car following its rather abrupt stop but why take the risk.

The only positive thing was that MGF Centre rebuilt the car to a better specification than before the incident. Toyos were not put back on the car and will not return. I'm sure I read recently that GSD2s were still in production and if you ask at the right garage they'll be able to source them.

Neil
Neil Stothert

Echoing Neil's point, I think it's too easy to undervalue the wet grip capabilities when choosing; chances are the tyres are going to be required to save your life more in the wet than in the dry.

I too am a GSD2 fan and sadly mourning its passing. The GSD3 sells itself a little by having a stiffer sidewall thus a better track tyre than the 2, and availability is good so some retailer somewhere might be doing an offer that makes the Toyos seem not so cheap.

That P Zero C certainly does look the part though... except the price tag, at that premium I'll need more than a little convincing
Mike Hankin

I am considering the P0Cs Mike - what slightly worries me is that they'll grip to more than 1.2G (the limit of a good quality road tyre) - which could spell an early demise of the wheel bearings (especially the rear) through the very high lateral loadings that these tyres are capable of... if Dunlop racing tyres are anything to go by.
Rob Bell

On my VVC with 15" wheels I run Toyo Proxes T1R's 205 on all wheels, I think they are great my times have improved on the track and hill climbs. On my "concours" car which has 16" wheels with GSD3's I find them fine as aroad tyre in the wet I have no complaints they also cost the same as the Toyo's over here.
Andrew Regens

Rob, I was asking B&G about stronger bearings when I mistakenly thought I had a failed one, and they assured me that only full race series cars had the capability to shred standard bearings, with even quite frequent track use and the possibility of R888s, they still recommended I stick with the OE items. Do the PC0s beat the R888s on dry grip?
Mike Hankin

Mike,

The wheel bearings will suffer, as Rob says, simply through the increased grip and extra G forces. The cup cars did have hefty bearings and flanges, because when they were first developed they found that half a dozen laps on slicks killed the standard bearing. However, these cup car items are very expensive. Roy Ford's advice for us track day types, based on the price of both standard and cup car items and his knowledge of the wear issue, is to stick with standard items. The advice is simply based on the relative costs, not that the standard bearing will be good enough!
Dave Livingstone

I find the discussion on tyre sizes and tread patterns confusing. The question of "what tyre pressures" to use,is equally so, and may well be dangerous in some circumstances. I have only looked at 16 inch wheels in this example:- 1.Owner's Handbook 3rd. edition says Front&Rear Goodyear Eagle F1 215/40/16 pressures 24 front 28 rear. No other config. recommended.
2.Important Information Supplement to Handbook says,
Goodyear Front 195/45/16 pressure 24, Rear 215/40/16 pressure 36
Yokohama Front 195/45/16 pressure 26, Rear 215/40/16 pressure 36
3.Workshop Manual 8th edition says,
Front 195/45/16 pressure 24,Rear 215/40/16 pressure 36 (no tyre manufacturer is given).
All pressures in psi.
I have an Abingdon 1.8vvc fitted with Khumo 215/40/ ZR16's all round and would welcome some advice. I presently use 26 front , 28 rear and the car does suffer from "tram lining"
Thanks in anticipation
Donald
DL Frew

I to have Khumo's and they do tramline i am told that it is the tread pattern that makes it do it however they behave better on my f in the wet than the goodyears/conti's that i have had on the car in the past!!!
Rick Earle

This thread was discussed between 02/08/2005 and 11/08/2005

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