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MG MGF Technical - Unequal camber on each wheel

Should the camber on each wheel be the same or at least close? Since the standard settings are all negative camber (Front: -0.30 +/-0.30, Rear: -1.00 +/-0.30) what happens if you have one wheel with a positive camber? Is it right that camber is only affected by ride height on the MGF? Does anything need to be done about this? If so, what can I do?

The background is having had three 4-wheel alignments in recent months. The May one was good, the December one was poor and the January has made the car handle well again. Ini all cases, however, the camber on the front right wheel has been positive. Current readings are Front: L: -0.29, R: +0.26 Rear L: -1.07, R: -0.38. (Although the rear left is out of tolerance, it has not been identified as such on the print out, but the front right has).

Yours in anticipation and hoping that this gives the suspension gurus something to think about...

Chaz
Chaz

Has the car been involved in an accident?

I ask because the camber is, as you rightly say, only adjustable through ride height. Therefore, if the car is level, then the camber should be pretty equal between wheels on the same axle.

The only way i can think of that would produce this kind of out of spec camber is if some of the suspension geometry was out, i.e. through an accident / poor repair.

Just a theory.

SF
Scarlet Fever

Chaz, have you measured the ride height on your car yet? Looking at the figures, I would guess that the right side is higher than the left...
Rob Bell

Scarlet, you're scaring me. The measurements listed above are from the 4-wheel alignment done yesterday - ie after the car's suspension height was checked and set (correctly I assume). The fact is that the front right wheel has has positive camber after all three alignments. The before figures also show positive front right camber on that wheel. The difference between the negative camber on the rear wheels is also consistent with the left always over -1.00 (by close to max tolerance) and the right always under -1.00 but within tolerance.

Does anyone else have the results of a recent alignment test to compare?

Thanks

Chaz
Chaz

>Does anyone else have the results of a recent alignment test to compare?

collected :)
I think about 15 from different cars.
I've seen some with out of specs camber at one wheel and we discussed a lot here. I think Scarlet reffers to these former discussions and conclusions (see Archives).

The camber change related to height change has never been a subject here (IMO) cause it is nearly *anyway*. Caster is also nearly anyway at the MGF if you don't race the car.

Toe angles have been usually the problem with the MGF due to poor handling and tyre wear at the front inner surface.

Out of specs Camber like at yours makes me curious on whats going on at your car and again on the relation between caster and height.
Could be missing washers under both hydragas units and/or to low ride height on the infected side ?

Anyone ideas on camber<>height relations ?

At last, if nobody has an answer I would go for adding washers of lets say 3mm on the infected side and measure camber again after correction of Toe angles to specs.
The absolute hydragas pressure difference between both sides could give a first impression as well on how much washer height is missing, but usually the dealers pump is so bad that they can't read the tiny gauge.
Relation of washer thickness to height change is 1:4 btw. 20mm car height gets done by 5mm washer. This may be on the other hand a pressure difference of about 50 psi at the pump.

Regards
Dieter
Dieter K.

>>The measurements listed above are from the 4-wheel alignment done yesterday - ie after the car's suspension height was checked and set (correctly I assume). <<

Don't assume Chaz - MGR garages are nortorious for not getting this right.

The reason for suspecting that the right side may be too high is that BOTH the front and rear camber settings on the right are more 'positive' than on the left.

Checking the ride height with a tape measure is easy to do - and if this is the cause of the camber problem (it may not be) then it is very cheap (FREE - see http://www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/howto_lower.htm#without ) to rectify! :o)

If no obvious cause of the camber mismatch is found, and you are happy with the way that the car drives, then don't worry any more about it. (The 'if it ain't broke, don't try and fix it' principle.) If you are having 'issues' with your car's suspension, then I'd recommend that you contact Techspeed - they have an impressive track record for sorting out people's MGF suspension ills.
Rob Bell

OK boys, measuring tape to the fore this weekend with adjustment for the cold weather (for the actual measurement if not the side to side consistency). I have ocassionally noticed a slight tilt, with the right side higher, but put that down to road camber and poor eyesight. Certainly the handling is very good at present, so the if it ain't broke approach finds favour. Just one silly question: the right side is not deliberately set any higher to adjust for road camber or weight of the driver??

Although the handling is fine, I'd like to understand this more. The sense I have from your responses is that most people have roughly even negative cambers for each wheel on the same axle. I spoke to the (now) famous Neville a few minutes ago and he suggested two possible causes. First, that the discrepancy arises because of the soft bushing and age of the rubber (Kyp has done 65,000 and was first registered in 9/95). This seems to be the "joggle the car to let it settle into a neutral stance" point and I don't see how that would fit with the consistency I see in the before and after alignment figures over the last 7 months.

The second and much more remote possibilty in Neville's view is that the sub-frames are off-true. He suggested that these are pretty strong and it would take a fair knock to bend something out of true. Also, if they were damaged I assume that the handling would not be as good as it is.

So, results of the tape measure to come - thanks all...

Chaz

Chaz

Chaz, I'd have to dig through my records to see what my car's camber - but I seem to recall some inconsistency from side to side, despite equal ride height. IIRC, one side was within specs, whilst the other was slightly too negative.

Doesn't bother me too much!

Now with TS suspension, the camber is much more negative - which is a good thing for the occassional track outing! :o)
Rob Bell

This thread was discussed between 07/01/2003 and 08/01/2003

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