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MG MGF Technical - What Causes Tram-lining???

Guys,

My R-Reg VVC F is terrible for so called 'Tramlining' and I'm sure that it's getting worse - any ideas on how to stop it?

Kind Regards,
Mike G
M R Gibson

Mike

what size rims n tyres are you running ?

stu
Stu

Stu,

Standard VVC rims and tyres P6000 Pirelli on rear and Cohmo on front..

Regards,
Mike G
M R Gibson

hmm,,, I run same rims but goodyear GS-D2 195 front 215 rear..

Some one will probably correct me if i am wrong but i think the wider sizes are a little more prone to tramlining, but most important is tracking, geometry etc...

Mixing tyre types front to back doesnt seem to be too popular on the forum too.. and i dont know anyone running Pirelli or Cohmo.

I dont get any problems allthough the car has been 'techspeeded" which changed the ride drastically for the better..

Stu
Stu

Stu,

What did Techspeed do and how much was it, if you don't mind me asking.

Also where are they based..

Regards,
Mike G
M R Gibson

Where to begin..

well here's the website... and i suggest looking through the Archives, there's loads of threads singin the praise's of techspeed.

http://www.tech-speed.co.uk/products.html

I went for the full monty. full techspeed suspension with nipple job and polybushes all around...

i had a 60k service done at the same time.. so its difficult to give an exact figure but it was about £1600 for the lot service included..

Its honestly a different car...

I'm not that far away from you if you want to try mine..

Stu
Stu

Mike,

Tech-speed Motorsport are near Leamington Spa - quite a way from you, but well worth the trip. I drive 80 miles each way to take advantage of their expertise and great customer service.

You can get the best from their suspension package for just £600. That will give you a car that's 25-30mm lower with Bilstein dampers maufactured to Tech-speed's race-derived, but road-designed settings. The geometry will be set up and tested to their satisfaction. Basically hand them the car and they'll give it back to you transformed. As Stu says, just take a look at the archives for the numerous testimonials.

The only true suspension option is the 'four nipple job' which is the separation of links between front and back hydragas. Not really necessary unless you are into track days. Add on £300.

Then Stu also replaced his bushes with poly ones - add another £420.

Call Marvin or Roy on 01926 632066. Don't email - they'll never read it - cars are their thing, not PCs :-)

Dave
Dave

Mike,

My day car is a Toyota Yaris SR. It has 195/55 x 15 tyres all round. From new I noticed that it was bad for tramlining. My daughter kerbed one of the front tyres resulting in a bulge in its sidewall. I phones Kwikfit and they wanted £90 for a new Dunlop, so I replaced the two front tyres with Toyo Proxies which cost me £80 fitted. I had just fitted four to the F and was really pleased with them. Anyway, since I changed the tyres on the Toyota the tramlining has gone. I don't mean reduced - I mean gone. So, I would suggest that tramlining has something to do with the physical properties of the tyre, not just its width. Also, I fitted 205s all round on the F so I could even the wear between back and front. I expected some tramlining on this car due to the bigger tyres but I was wrong. I have however, noticed a slight increase in scuttle shake, I think due to the 205s being heavier than the original 185s.
David Clelland

>'Tramlining'

The cheap version :)
.. at an old MGF I would see for worn ball joints at first.
Then followed by the rubber bearings at the rear. At last the subframe mounts.

Cheers
Dieter
Dieter K.

Tramlining, the benefits ...

On the A1(M) near Darlington the inside lane at places in both directions has two heavy duty grooves from a surfeit of HGV's. Very useful they are as well, because if one drops the tyres of any car into the grooves the car will steer itself in the groove without any effort from the driver. No need to steer = chance for 40 winks on a long trip :-)!

Nurse! Time for my medication I think?

Chris
Chris Reeves

Mike, just to summarise the causes of tramlining that have been mentioned above:

1. Tracking: if the tracking is incorrect, the steering can be made susceptible to tramlining. This can be solved by simple adjustment - or may be due to wear that Dieter alludes to. If you take your car to Techspeed, then they'll definitely sort all this problems for you :o)
2. Tyres. Certain tyre compounds are suspectible to tramlining (difficult to predict which tyre types will do this - only experience will tell), as will wider front tyres (gets progressively more noticeable as the tyre width exceeds 205mm. Mixing of tyre brands is a BAD IDEA - avoid if at all possible. Nasty handling issues are frequently reported.
Rob Bell

Mike - Although suspension geometry obviously does affect "tramlining" I personally think too little is said about the tyres effects. In my case I have run with 10mins toe in on the front and 0 on the back for probably 6 years now on my 1996 F. I have also tried a variety of tyres from the oem GY nct3's, GY F1's, Yokohama A520's, Bridgestone SO2's to the current Bridgestone RE040's. These all I might add on the standard sizes of 185's on the front and 205's on the back. Of them all the current Bridgestones are far and away the worst for "tramlining" and nothing I can do seems to change that.

Having said that their grip both wet and dry is exceptional and they seem to be lasting well so overall I am very satisfied but it does mean quite a high workload on the typical main road these days with the pronounced HGV grooves. Given that my settings have been the same on all these tyres it seems obvious to me that the tyre construction itself has to be one of the major components in whether a car tramlines or not, if not THE major component. Of all the other tyres I have used the only one I ever wrote in my log as tramlining noticeably were the Yoko A520's when they were new. After about 2000 miles they seemed to have bedded in and settled down but with the current Bridgestones that has not happened. The "tramlining" sensitivity is still as pronounced now as it was when the tyres were new nearly 10k ago. It is the main reason that I will look for something else when the time comes to change them.

In your case your mixture of makes and types between the front and rear axles probably compounds any tendency each type would have to "tramlining" and in general it is not a good practice to mix tyres on the F with its known rubber sensitivity. If you are on reasonable geometry settings already then probably the only way you will get rid of "tramlining" is to replace the tyres. Preferably with the same make, type and compound all round. If you aren't on good BBS recommended settings already then doing so will definitely help but may well not cure the "tramlining".

Alan
axdunsta

This thread was discussed between 10/07/2003 and 11/07/2003

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