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MG MGF Technical - White sludge in coolant tank

Oh no! Checked my coolant level at the weekend and noticed a white sludge under the coolant filler cap and the coolant level has gone down a bit. Engine temperatures during running all seem ok but does this mean I'm heading for an imminent HGF?! :-(
Gordon

Possibly, what does your oil look like? Is that going like mayonnaise?

Bruce
Bruce Caldwell

Bruce, just been out and checked the oil and there was a very faint trace of mayonnaise on the filler cap but tiny. Dip stick is coming out very clean. Puzzling and worrying!
Gordon

Gordon,

It does sound like traces of oil in the water. Add this to the coolant level drop and I'd say that the head gasket is leaking and will blow soon.

From my own experience I would at this point book it in for a head gasket replacement before it blows. The oil/water mess caused by leaving it to blow takes a lot of cleaning up, getting as far back as the air-filter in my case (ruining an ITG Maxogen filter).

If you want final confirmation then there are two tests you can do to confirm that there are also combustion gases in the coolant:

1. A chemical test which any competent garage can do.
2. Use of an MOT exhaust emissions sniffer in the coolant bottle which again any MOT garage can do.

If either of these show any signs of combustion gases then this is your final proof. In my case the chemical test proved negative and the sniffer test showed slight traces fooling me to look for a coolant leak elsewhere. I found a slight weep at the water pump, which was replaced and I thought all was well. It was at this point that I continued to see water loss, noticed a slight oil residue on the expansion bottle cap and sides of the expansion bottle and suffered an HGF within days.

You can always use the failure, as I did, to go further into the darkside and have the head ported whilst it's off - there's a man who lives not far away from you who is an expert in such things ;-)

Dave
Dave

Gordon,
Have you been making a lot of small trips lately, if the answer is yes it could just be condensation build up, try taking the car for a run that lasts at least 20 minutes at normal operating temp, this will either clear out any moisture in the oil, or if the head gasket is leaking then it should still look emulsified.

Hope things are not worse case.

Mike, (currently HFG'ed Trophy)
Mike

Mike, this is true for water in the oil, but not for oil in the water.
Gordon, you have recovery cover right?
Will Munns

Gordon,

If it helps - I had no signs of mayonnaise on the dipstick - until the cloud of steam appeared in the rear view mirror.

Still feeling rather pessimistic for you, sorry,

Dave
Dave

Well I just rang B&G and they want just under £500 for the replacement. Mike Satur wanted £528 but she said that Mike would advise against driving all the way to Rotherham, in fact he would take the keys off me and stop me driving the car altogether until it was replaced. Yikes - now I'm scared. What sort of damage does it do if you get a full HGF. Presumably, the bill is more than £500 in that case? Guess I'll be booking in to B&G then!
Gordon

Gordon,

I'd be tempted to trailer the car anyway, wherever you choose. Treat the cost as insurance against any further damage if it happened to blow en route.

TechSpeed based in Eathorpe, near Leamington Spa are my trusted independent workshop and they came and picked up my car from Amersham in Bucks. That's 80 miles each way and they didn't charge me much to do this. Drop me an email if you want their contact details or find them on http://www.tech-speed.co.uk/contact.html

Dave
Dave

Gordon, you've detected a HGF early - and you'll reap the dividends now, as there will (hopefully) be minimal damage to the cylinder head. That means you'll only be paying for disassembly, checking and replacement of head gasket.

If you drove the car any distance now, the damage caused by a full-on HGF will be far more costly to replace: scrap cylinder head, even scrap engine in the worst case scenario.

Therefore it pays to be cautious now. Get the car trailered to the workshop you've commisioned the work to take place at.
Rob Bell

Thanks for the comments guys - feeling mighty depressed now! It's booked in with Brown and Gammons for tomorrow. I'm going to chance driving it to the garage in the morning. After all, I haven;t checked the coolant for quite a while - it's probably been like this for a while. Having said that, what's the betting....!
They reckon they need it for a week, sending the head off for hardness tests and possible skimming. Blimey. It's being without the car for a week that's the worst thing! I suppose I can't complain because the car is a 96 P plate and I've had it for 3 years. It's been totally reliable and I haven't had anything fail on it. So I'm getting it serviced at the same time - fortunately I had the big 60k one done last year so this one is cheaper. However, good job I'm due a refund on my tax for last year!
Gordon

Following your advice guys, I’m having a change of heart and may use Tech Speed instead. They have offered to pick up the car for the cost of the diesel. I’m worried about driving it down to Baldock tomorrow to Brown and Gammons and also Techspeed should turn it around quicker and have it back to me on Saturday.

They've offered either the standard Rover gasket or the Mike Satur equivalent. Anyone have any feel for this?
Gordon

Mike's gasket is made of uprated materials, and therefore may be the one to get (they're pretty popular amongst the Elise boys too).

Whether it'll decrease the chance of a repeat performance is anyone's guess.

Fingers crossed nothing too serious will be found upon strip down Gordon.
Rob Bell

Gordon,

I've replied to your email concurring with Rob on the gasket choice and some pointers on other things to think about in the strip down.

Good luck,

Dave
Dave

If you go for the Rover replacement, ask them to use the metal dowels. Your original one won't have had these. In fact, I think the metal dowels should probably be used with the Mike S one too??

It's a pain that it's happened at-all, but take solice in the fact that it could have been so much more expensive if you'd ignored it!

Good Luck.
Leigh

Gordon,

Any News ?
Mike

Guys,

After all that, I have actually taken the car in to Brown & Gammons. I drove it down there yesterday and it didn't go bang on the way! Dave, thanks for your email, it came just a few minutes too late after I'd rejected TechSpeed in favour of B&G. I've used B&G before without any problems and whilst they promised to hardness test the head, TechSpeed said they wouldn't do that. B&G rang up about an hour after I dropped it off to report that whilst there was oil contamination in the coolant, there wasn't coolant in the oil. However, everything was pointing to early signs of gasket failure. I have decided to proceed and do the replacement although I guess it could have driven for a while without any problems. I figure that firstly I don't want to drive the car with my eye glued to the temp gauges and secondly, as you guys say, this is insurance against future bigger bills. Expecting this to take about a week with B&G......I already miss my car! Just about to ring them up and discuss choice of replacement gasket.
Gordon

This thread was discussed between 21/01/2003 and 23/01/2003

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