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MG TD TF 1500 - A bit OT

So I am reading that in the 3 trillion dollars social bill that the government is currently working on is a proposal to look at taxing cars by the mile.

I guess we are on the honor system if it passes?

My restored TD will have a functioning odometer (functioning, but accurate?) It never has worked in the 48 years I have owned it.
Bruce Cunha

In the UK it is already done at around $3, yep 3 per Imperial gallon.
This means, the bigger the car, the more miles you do the more you pay, my TF does 30+ mpg and my Mazda 55mpg but I know which I drive for fun.
Ray TF 2884
Ray Lee

I guess we are on the honor system if it passes?

Knowing California I guess they'll just have everyone report to a SMOG station for a mileage verification. But still I would not be too happy to be paying at the same mileage rate on my 37 HP Morris Minors or 58 HP TD as someone driving a 6000 pound Ram pickup.
John Quilter (TD8986)

I heard that Oregon is looking at this. They would issue the car a transponder that would have a GPS that recorded your mileage. It would transmit it to the State and you would get a bill each year.

I am assuming this would be a battery powered unit. If not, then I will smile when it is hooked up to my positive ground TD.

I can understand the need for this as the full electric cars are now driving on the roads for free, but if they go this way for all cars, then I would expect the gas tax to go away.
Bruce Cunha

I would assume it will be added to the gas tax as hinted at above..but perhaps the electric cars will require a different method to generate revenue

Regards, Tom
tm peterson

Gas tax go away?? Never happen. Seen any taxes go away?
John Quilter (TD8986)

My brother (sometimes reliable source) also says 15% ethanol is mandated in the bill. Yikes. George
George Butz III

My MG has the lowest registration rate for CA, does not need to be smog tested and the mileage would be a rounding error. I don't expect any change for this car.

Now my Tesla is the opposite except for the smog test. :-)
Christopher Couper

Seems they should leave the gas tax as it is, and add transponders to electric cars and hybrids only. Hybrids at a lower rate than electric, obviously. Or, add a meter to all car chargers and tax them the same way gas cars are taxed. Although adding transponders to gas cars would encourage people to get more fuel efficient vehicles, since you would pay less per mile.
Steve Simmons

Steve, We're a two person family. We have three MGs, two late model Toyotas and a '77 Ford F-100. All six are driven regularly although the Toyotas are driven the most and the F-100 is driven the least. Anyway, that's six transponders not counting the John Deere that hits the road occasionally.

Who's going to pay for the transponders and pay for installing them? Will the transponder work with my positive earth TD?

What will the transponders measure - GPS? Something mechanical in the car such as drive shaft rotation? Some output from a modern car's onboard computer?

I agree that electrics and hybrids should pay their share of road maintenance but I can't see retrofitting the entire fleet of cars currently on the road.

It's the same problem with self-drivers and autopilots. If suddenly all vehicles were following the same program, that might be OK but I see real problems with 10% of the vehicles on auto pilot and the rest relying on human control.

Just my rant and now I'm going back in my hole.

Jud
J K Chapin

I think fitting distance transponders to the extremely diverse vehicle fleet is a pipe dream of some proponents. Tapping into a multitude of now very complex automotive electrical systems is problematic. I certainly do not want anyone meddling with the hyper complex electrical system of my Jaguar XJ6. Transponders would also likely run into legal issues regarding personal privacy. Gas tax may be unpopular but the mechanism for collection of this tax is already in place. Electrical cars should get an annual registration surcharge for road maintenance and, being pretty heavy, should certainly pay their fair share of that.
John Quilter (TD8986)

Jud, I never said anything about adding transponders to MGs. I only suggested that if they are going to go that route, it should only be done to modern electric/hybrid that already have the capability built in.

Modern vehicles would require no additional hardware. It's all software-driven, and most come with receivers and transmitters already. Soon, all cars will have 2-way communication / internet capability. I want no part of that, which is why I don't own anything made after the 1960's. I can't see add-on transponders becoming normal or successful, but stranger things have happened.
Steve Simmons

Big Brother is already watching. In Florida most of us have credit card sized stick on non-powered transponders on our windshields for our many efficient toll roads. Law enforcement can and does scan them. The sometimes flashing portable speed signs that have a red light on the back have tag readers. Many public parking lots prohibit backing in so tags can be scanned. Your OnStar or equivalent knows where you are. Phone in your pocket or car? Many likely know where you are and how far you have traveled. Do I like this? No. But it is how it is. As of now, electric cars that for the most part are charged by fossil fuel burning power plants get a free ride with no gas tax. I agree with Steve- they should have a tax meter built in to charging stations. But many politicians who fly around the country in private jets and live in energy sucking mansions, still want to eliminate the internal combustion engine. Wish I could afford a Hellcat or Demon while they still make them... I probably shouldn't post while medicated after minor surgery but why not....George
George Butz III

George,

In case all of those tracking devices don’t work I had the vaccine and got my Bill Gates chips.

I have to hold a flashlight near my arm every night to recharge them.

Seems to work, the guys trying to see me a warranty manage to get hold of me 3 or 4 times every day.

Peter
P G Gilvarry

Very interesting thread,guys, especially those of you in the States. Boy am I glad that (a) I'm 67 and not 27 or 37; and (b) I live in the far-flung north of Queensland, probably the last state in Australia to catch up with anything modern. That used to be an embarrassment, but is rapidly becoming a badge of honour. Tasmania, another beautiful state down south, is probably vying for the honour.
I think I'll abandon any thoughts of converting TC or TD to negative earth, just in case!
J P Hall

Oops! Sorry Steve. I didn't mean to offend, especially since I think we are pretty much of like mind on these things. I will reiterate that self wrecking cars scare the hell out of me but I have to admit that this afternoon I went through the Ford.com page on the all electric F-150 lightening and I sorta want one. I just wish I could get one without all the "driver assist" stuff that I think is dangerous.

My proposed solution to young driver inattention/incompetence: All new drivers must learn to drive in a TD or comparable car and pass their driver's test in said car. In the service I was command officer in a semi-fully automated radar warning facility. We were supposed to stay awake and alert for 8 hours while the computer did everything unless the computer burped. Then we were supposed to be able to immediately take manual control. I can tell you that is not humanly possible.

End of another rant - back in hole.

Jud
J K Chapin

No offense whatsoever taken! I think most of us share a distaste for modern electronic gizmos invading our vintage iron.

I think the best safety device would be to replace airbags with a steel spike. If you rear end anyone, the spike would shoot out and impale you in the chest. Can you imagine how careful and attentive most people would be? And the ones who weren't, well, lets just say the gene pool would benefit. ;)

Here in California, we've banned speed cameras and such things. Red light cameras are also virtually unenforceable. I think transponders would likely suffer a similar fate, unless federally mandated. While rare in many places these days, there is still some free thought allowed here in the southwest USA.
Steve Simmons

Don't forget New Hampshire, the Live Free or Die state.

Jim
James Neel

This thread was discussed between 17/08/2021 and 21/08/2021

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