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MG TD TF 1500 - Avoiding gunk buildup in water passages

Inadvertently, we hijacked another thread on MGB fans... sorry!
But I'd like to continue to talk about the issue of gunk buildup in the water passages of the engine block.
Mine were so occluded that it took two boilings and a lot of wire brushing, grinding, poking and swearing at the engine before it all came clean.
So my question is, now I have a spanking new engine, so to speak, what can I do to keep the junk from building up again?
Obviously, regular flushing will help - I would imagine a minimum of once a year, but probably more often...
Any kind of descaling additives that people would recommend during a flush?
I'd really like to have a maintenance regimen that would keep the block clean for the NEXT sixty years...
Advice appreciated!
Geoffrey M Baker

The scale build up depends on what you put in it. If you use tap water its asking for trouble unless its very soft, even then its not the best. You want any of distiilled / demineralised / deionised water. I use the first of these from our tumble drier, mixed 50:50 with antifreeze.
Dave H
Dave Hill

Check the "Liquid Intelligent" products, some products arent all smoke and mirrors, I know because I have used them.
G Evans

Always pipe your overflow into a collector bottle.
Continual evaporation and replenishment increases the amount of solids in the coolant. This way you are only drawing back the same concentration just like a modern sealed system.
This works with both the TD open and TF closed system as the TF cap has a vacuum breaker valve built in.
Ray TF 2884
Ray Lee

Goeff,
This is the flushing method that I use, along with the conventional draining of block and rad, probably won't get all of the stuff out, but I'm sure that it helps;
First, run the car for 100-200 miles with a cup of Arm and Hammer Super Washing Soda in the cooling system..
Then I use a back flush arrangement by putting a 2 foot length of neoprene hose on the block drain petcock, on the other end, I added adapters that convert it to a threaded connection that a garden hose can be connected to. At the rad filler cap, I put the piece from a Prestone Radiator Flush kit. To this, connect a hose to a bucket. Turn on the faucet and it back flushes the block.

Steve
Steve Wincze

DO NOT USE deionized water.
As the term implies it is missing an ion, the water molecule is out of balance and will do anything it can to get back in balance.
It will collect an ion form your engine block. It literally will eat the metal it comes in to contact with.
In the electronic industry they call deionized water "hungry "
It's looking for an ion to balance itself.
G D

GD I wonder if deionized water could be used to clean the bock because of its metal eating properties? Could it be used on a run for a hundred miles or so, then emptied & flushed out with distilled water? It seems this may be a cheap way to remove rust & scale from the water jackets. It would also rob ions from the radiator again providing an internal clean. I've no idea of the availability, or the cost, of deionized water verses Steve's washing soda or the sort of product Geoff is inquiring about, or even if would be an effective rust remover. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Interesting thought Peter !!!
Steve
Steve Wincze

What about using a high pressure washer on the engine? Anybody removed the thermostat and rear plate and run a high pressure nozzle into the block? I was thinking this morning that you could make plates to fit for the rear plate and the thermostat elbow and attach a high pressure line and pump water through at high pressure. Not sure if the block plugs would remain in place, though...? Just trying to think "outside the box" to use the world's most overused cliché...
Geoffrey M Baker

I recently boiled out my boat's exhaust manifold with Muriatic Acid (dilute hydrochloric!) and it did an amazing job... not sure I'd recommend that for an engine, though, unless it was entirely apart.

My best flushes result from removing the two major hoses to the motor and back-flushing the system by forcing water into the upper hose, and I open all the holes I can (heater hoses, remove the drain cocks, etc.). I wrap a garden hose in as much cloth as is needed to make it just fit snugly into the upper hose, hold it in place tightly, and then I turn on the tap full-bore. With 40lbs of water pressure this usually drags out much of the muck. I also rod-out any holes that don't flow freely, most particularly the hole where the drain tap goes, as this is usually the most gunked up area.

If the upper hose has a thermostat to block the pressure, of course this gets removed and I work from that open port with the hose.
Kevin McLemore

Kevin, I did that as well, and it didn't budge any of the buildup. Now it's all clean, that may work OK.
I think I'll avoid muriatic acid. It would eat through the block plugs pretty quickly...
Geoffrey M Baker

Goeff,
Just pressurizing the water in there won't do much,,

Steve
Steve Wincze

I found this in a thread on removing engine rust: using molasses in water 1 part to 10.
(There's also a reference in the archives here).

Here's a rough explanation, given in another forum:
"The cane sugar(saccharose) in the molasses is the reducing agent. Many sugars are. They are a carbohydrate(containing carbon,hydrogen and oxygen) and work in much the same way as the carbon monoxide above.
The vinegar and acetic are acids, that is they have a low PH. Molasses on the other hand has a PH of 9-11. The high PH "passivates" the metal meaning the corrosion process is essentially stopped.
I would not use acid to treat corrosion as it will attack the underlying sound metal. Reduction in a high PH environment will not. "
So...
Using high ph concentrations (such as Coca-Cola or molasses in water) removes rust buildup, it appears.

Worth trying? Thoughts? Good jokes? :)
Geoffrey M Baker

The reason your engine was clogged up was from neglect. When coolant dries out, it creates a nasty mess and collects even more debris, namely the rust created from letting the engine sit and dry out for decades. Someone may have revived an old engine by simply changing the fluids, and that usually isn't good enough.

Now that it's clean, just flush once per year and all should be well. The more you drive, the better off the whole system will be. They hate sitting. When I flush, I do it with the highest pressure hose I can, and flush both directions. That includes the radiator, which ideally is done off the car so you can flip it upside down on the reverse flush. But on the car works well enough also.
Steve Simmons

Steve, as far as I know, the engine was NEVER left to allow the coolant to dry out. It was run regularly, at least for the past 35+ years, at least once a week by my father (since 1980) and more often than that by the previous owner. While we don't know anything about what happened prior to the early seventies, I doubt it was ever left to dry out for any length of time.
None the less, as you say the more you run it the better off it will be, and I'm sure it was seldom, if ever, pressure flushed. So my doing it twice a year should definitely help keep it clean!
I'm thinking of making a front plate for the engine to use for cleaning, so all I have to do is remove the thermostat elbow, bolt on the plate with correct fittings for a high pressure hose, put some kind of cap on the water pump, and run that for a few hours and see how it does. I can set up a permanent valve connection for the rear plate too so I can just attach a hose at any time.

I'll do a regular flush for the radiator, in both directions. Taking the radiator off is a PITA for sure!
Having rodded the radiator myself, I know that she is good to go as well.
Geoffrey M Baker

If the engine was last rebuilt in the 70's, then that's 40 years worth of residue, rust, whatever building up. No matter how well you keep it clean, you can't keep it spotless for 40 years. An occasional flush (once per year is typically recommended) and boil the block at each rebuild and it will be fine. No car should need permanent hose connections. Just my 2.34 cents USD.
Steve Simmons

I question why would you stuff around with solutions to this problem that have unknown outcomes when the proven method to resolve this problem is readily available.

The 2 part Liquid Intelligence product 239 works, my running temperature on a rebuilt XPAG dropped 10 degrees. What it removed from the block and radiator with no detrimental effects on hoses and welsh plugs was an eye opener. Operator needs to adhere to the use age directions.

Product is available world wide and is well supported by technical advice.

Here is the link: http://liquidintelligence.com.au/products/239-500-engine-cooling-system-overheating-repair-kit
G Evans

Not to knock the product, G Evans, but at $250 (Incl. shipping to the USA) it's pretty pricey, and his own website says its installed on only 83000 vehicles worldwide... that's not exactly a wide use. I would be very hesitant to use something with so little actual data and such a high cost... most of the data on his site simply states that his product meets or exceeds Australian automotive cooling standards - well, so does antifreeze at 1/20 the cost...
I'll look into it more but there are plenty of 'waterless' coolants here that make the same claims and at lower prices.

Geoffrey M Baker

The problem with using deionized water or any other (excuse the term) shade tree chemical is it may attach the good metal also.
I personally use one of the commercial flush chemicals/kits that you can buy at most automotive stores.
I want something that has been tested for it's intended use.

I realize it may not do as good a job as some harsh chemicals but I tread on the side of caution.
G D

Sure, if you put in deionised water every week it might, and it is a might, after many many years actually cause an undesirable effect, but in real life thats not going to happen. In any case these cars are already 60 years old and there is bound to be some crud in there which might ever so slightly reduce (a good thing) so worrying about deionized water is pointless. The main thing is to never use tap water, and always use antifreeze because it contains anticorrosion additives.
Dave H
Dave Hill

Maybe I'm just lucky, but Lazarus doesn't get one of these enemas very often. The only time I flush out the cooling system is when I replace the 50/50 Prestone antifreeze, about once every 3 or so years. No other chemicals used. No high pressure jets, just water from the hose. There's no indication of gobs of crud coming out. The installation of the coolant recovery system may help. Bud
Bud Krueger

After some research, I am going to use the "No-Rosion" additive. I don't need to use an abrasive or caustic flush, because everything - the block, radiator, pipes, and pump - have been brought back to factory specs and are clean as a whistle.
The Norosion product sounds good because it is simply a corrosion inhibitor which will work well with any standard antifreeze mix and has been in use commercially for many years.
I'll try to remember to report on how this works, over the next few years :)
Geoffrey M Baker

My brew is plain water, a bit of anti-freeze as a lubricant and anti-rust agent, and some Water Wetter. The car runs cooler than I do.
Steve Simmons

I would never contemplate using the Liquid Intelligence coolant, if you read my post correctly I am referring to the block/radiator cleaning chemicals which are a two part preparation.

I believe using this product annually would be sufficient to keep your cooling system descaled. I run a standard off the shelf coolant mixed at the correct ratio to match the ambient temperatures that my vehicle is exposed to.
G Evans

I have used with success ( to clean a radiator and block ) just white vinegar I filled the system with almost 2 gallons and let it stay for 2 day's I then took the car for a one hour drive and drained the system > flushed it plain water, drove it again for about 30 minutes and drained / flushed again. just to check . result ? almost clean water came out. The model A Ford is purring with a good temperature and not overheating anymore. My friend is thank full for the tip.

Gerard Hengeveld

This thread was discussed between 01/09/2015 and 03/09/2015

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