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MG TD TF 1500 - Brakes OK but not as I would like them

My TF has Alfins from Bob Grunau and new shoes arced to match (2023). The wheel cylinders and rubbers are not old and on the front are all pointing the correct way and car stops OK. Straight but requiring considerable pressure. The pedal is firm, with minimal slack and does not ‘pump up’.

They are not great however. On a hard fast ‘panic’ stop on tarmac I can’t get the fronts to lock up, and I think I should be able to?

Fluid (Dot 3) has been replaced and flushed. No leaks, no air bubbles. The front shoes all lock up on the adjusters and then turn freely after one click back. I am replacing the old hoses as a next step.

Am I missing something or wanting too much?
M Hyde

See http://www.ttalk.info/TinkerServo.htm
I installed it in my TD about 10 years ago and can readily lock them up when I need to. Bud
Bud Krueger

On my TD and TF I can lock all 4 wheels, in fact that is how I check it and adjust them so all 4 skid marks are the same length. YOU DO NOT NEED A SERVO. If the backs lock and the front doesn't then there is something wrong in the plumbing. Have you tried jacking the car up at the front and with somebody 's foot on the brake see how much resistance there is to rotation. It is unusual for both from hoses to fail at the same time the same way, but not impossible. I would suspect the pipe from the M/C to the 3 way if both fronts are the same. If you are changing the front hoses I would change the rear as well as they are probably the same age.
B W Wood

Thanks for that. I have ordered a set of 3 hoses. I cleaned all the adjusters and lightly lubricated them. Also checked the shoes for wear and contact surface with some talcum powder. I agree, I suspect that the hoses are fine, even though 16 years old. I have a hoist and my 'assistant' can (reluctantly) sit in the car and press the brake pedal while I observe the rotation/drag on each wheel. I will also check the pipe from the M/C to the 3 way, when I am fitting the new hoses.

Thanks Bud, a servo is a nice idea but I would like to get them working properly first.
M Hyde

I had that problem. Very difficult to stop. Posted the problem here and someone suggested I installed the front wheel cylinders upside down. The WSM Fig M.6 is right front and I mistakenly thought it was left front. Re installed and all was well.
Peter Dahlquist

Thanks Peter. I have the front wheel cylinders correctly aligned with the front adjuster down and the rear one up. After chatting with Tony Slattery this morning I may have found a clue. The Alfin drums are quite new and polished and the drums are also quite smooth. Tony initial suggestion is to rough up both the drum surface and the shoe surface to increase the friction.
M Hyde

Hi Merv,
As discussed at Cars & Coffee today, I have emailed my brake setup/modification/calculation spreadsheet for peer review by you.......

Cheers

Tony
The Classic Workshop
A L SLATTERY

Great work Tony! Not sure I can do a "peer review"😁. However will do what I can. I have roughed up the shoes and took the sheen off the drums. Will see how it is so far!
M Hyde

You guys are fantastic. I installed the booster a number of years ago in hopes that it would allow my wife to drive Lazarus when she was approaching 80. (My wife, not Lazarus.) I turned 89 a couple weeks ago and I find it worth while. Bud
Bud Krueger

One of us is fantastic Bud - Tony. I will attempt to populate the file with TF data as much as I aware. You look after that woman there!
M Hyde

Interesting specs Tony
I wanted dual circuit brakes on my Y and went for a Toyota Hilux 7/8" M/cylinder. Pedal still feels nice and firm - Haven't reached the road for testing yet though. It was an easy conversion.
William Revit

I scuffed the shine off the existing shoes on front and rear and also the scuffed the front brake drum inner linings to develop some better 'bite'. It made a difference to the braking, with noticeable dip in the front suspension under hard braking. Still to do the 'rubber' hoses and check/clean the front hard lines.
M Hyde

Merv, reading back through this i noticed you used talcum powder to check lining contact---Did you wash it off thoroughly afterwards--Talc. has silicone in it to make it slippery- probably not the best thing for brake efficiency---maybe a good washdown with some brakekleen might help

willy
William Revit

Yes thanks Willi. Cleaned with wax and grease remover and brake clean. Getting the new hoses in next. Also checking flow in all the lines.
M Hyde

I have inspected the brake lines. The ones to the rear of the front cross member have all been replaced with Cunifer tubing in the last 5 years. The ones serving the front brakes and across the three-way appear to be original steel lines.

They seem to flow OK when bleeding. I am wondering if I should replace these? I could use then existing ones as templates and make up some in Cunifer with double flares and new locking nuts?
M Hyde

Thanks Bud for sharing your age. I turn 84 this year and was thinking I'm getting too old to drive "Faye".
Bill Brown

This thread was discussed between 04/04/2024 and 10/04/2024

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