MG-Cars.info

Welcome to our Site for MG, Triumph and Austin-Healey Car Information.

Recommendations

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG TD TF 1500 - Carriage bolts - rear bottom rail

Just want to confirm before I drill holes ...

> Is a 5/16" carriage bolt used to secure the wood rear bottom rail to each side of the frame? The rotten and botched bottom rail in my TF was secured with 5/16" BSF hex bolts.

Are 5/16" BSF or 5/16" fine thread imperial carriage bolts available? Where?

Grade 5 zinc finish steel or 18-8 stainless?

Is there a pad between the wood and the two steel parts?

Thanks for your help,

Lonnie
TF7211

LM Cook

Not much help to you Lonnie but I just purchased a couple here at Cedray here in Sydney. Blackened 3" x 5/16" BSF. I used large washers with one part of the arc cut into a flat to increase the bearing area on the timber. This flat was necessary to clear the metal frame. They should be available somewhere in the States. I used a couple of plastic spacers on top of the chassis fixing. This thickness was adjusted when packing the tub so that the doors hung correctly in the available opening. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

I'm not 100% sure what you are talking about there and the photo doesn't help. However, a word of warning - don't do what I did first time around and use carriage bolts to attach the wood bottom rails (under the doors) to the chassis side members. The holes line up, so its tempting to use them, but those holes are really there to attach the running boards at a much later stage. It took a lot of ingenuity fot me to remove them, once I had realised the mistake.
Dave H
Dave Hill

On a TD, they are just regular hex head bolts. You can't install them until nearly finished with tub build. The tub is shimmed here between the frame to fine adjust the door hinge pillar angle. See the pads- no clue what the material is. Note that the washer goes over the edge of the steel angle iron. George

George Butz III

Looks like an original install George. I think I'll replace the washers I used. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Carriage bolts in the rear bottom rail were briefly discussed in a BBS thread in 2013. Bud Krueger showed a pic of carriage bolts in the rear bottom rail. A club member also told me that carriage bolts were used.
Thread: "Body tub mounting points"
http://www2.mg-cars.org.uk/cgi-bin/or17?runprog=mgbbs&access=&mode=archiveth&subject=8&subjectar=8&thread=2013021220274415741

Perhaps for some TFs? Perhaps never used? Based on George's photo, I'll use the 2-7/8" X 5/16" BSF hex head bolts that are on the car.

Photo: Pencil marks indicate the location of the center of the 5/16" hole and bolt head.

Thanks,

Lonnie
TF7211


LM Cook

Lonnie, that was what I used to assemble 'The53'. All of the original wood in that area was rotted and the metalwork was thoroughly rusted. Not intended to represent originality, just function. Bud
Bud Krueger

Thanks for clarifying, Bud.

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

I am just about finished with a complete list of frame and body fasteners (did not do the engine). The list is a compilation of Chris Coopers list on this site, Abingdon Spares list, and my own measurments taken off an unmolested frame that Bill Chasser has.

I hope to put the list out for review and comment in a few weeks. Here is what is on the list for the body tub.


5/16 BSF 2 3/4 Carriage Bolt 2
5/16 BSF 3 Carriage Bolt 2 Body Tub
Bruce Cunha

Interesting, If that came from Bill's frame, you post Or are they from someone's list? My picture is of my car TD #10835. Maybe they used both?
George Butz III

Since no one confirmed that carriage bolts were used to secure the rear bottom rail to the body frames until your post, I drilled and used the BSF hex head bolts and washers that were in the butchered bottom rail. Looks exactly like George's photo.

Interesting that both methods -- hex and carriage -- may have been used.

Possibly way to create 5/16" BSF carriage bolts: Cut the threads off of long 5/16" carriage bolts and create new BSF threads on the bare shank.
http://www.fastenal.com/products/fasteners/bolts/carriage-bolts?r=~%7Ccategoryl1:"600000 Fasteners"%7C~ ~%7Ccategoryl2:"600001 Bolts"%7C~ ~%7Ccategoryl3:"600005 Carriage Bolts"%7C~ ~%7Csattr03:%5E9"$%7C~ ~%7Csattr02:%5E5/16"-18$%7C~

Gotta copy and paste the link.

Is it feasible to add more description to the location of each fastener? I have a hard time determining the locations in previous lists.

Thanks for your work to document and preserve originality of our cars. I know that it is not easy.

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

Well, it can be looked at the fact that they used hex head bolts on the TD firewall and carriage bolts on the TF doing the same job. Hard to figure their reasoning for a lot of things done back then. Could be an overlap on various bolt type usage at the factory and that could make both correct at various stages of production. Because TFs were the end of an era, I'm amazed that more overlapping of TD parts weren't used. PJ
PJ Jennings

My 51 TD came with hex bolts and D shaped washers that fit against the side rail rather than rest on top. Trying to find a picture but so far no luck.
J Cosin

Re the location of the washers Chris is there anything in the Gallery? Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

My lists do not give the car numbers, so it is entirely possible that they used one up to a point and then switched.

Bills chassis does not have the tub on it, so these are from Chris's lists. I have not found a picture on moss, abingdon or NTG

I will scour Chris's photos to see if I can find any pictures.
Bruce Cunha

Ok, I scoured the internet and also visited Dave Braun's web to review pictures of the tub fasteners. I did not find any on Chris's picture page on this site.

Dave's car has hex bolts with a large washer that sits over the seam. Just as in George's picture above.

This one I found on the web.

I would say that the bolts are hex, but if any have any original pictures of carriage bolts in the tub, I would appreciate a copy.


This will be one of the things we will need to do with my list. Once I get it out there, I would appreciate any input on what is incorrect.


Bruce Cunha

Here is the left rear bolt in Dave Braun's car (Picture copied from Dave Braun's web page)

Bruce Cunha

Can anyone tell me the head size on the bolts
Bruce Cunha

Yes Virginia, there is a carriage bolt.

Once again Bud Krueger's ttalk.info comes through �

See these documents by Hiram Kelley on Bud's site, and thanks to Hiram for creating them:

+ Carriage bolt locations in "TD Tub Woodscrew Sizes."
+ Photos of carriage bolt in "RTub Assembly" part 2.

> TD Tub Woodscrew Sizes from Hiram Kelley (2/28/2011)
This is the only list that I have seen the has good descriptions of where the bolts go. Note the carriage bolt locations in his list.
http://www.ttalk.info/TD_Tub_wood_screw_sizes.pdf

> KelleyTubAssembly (2/25/2011)
Restoration steps.
http://www.ttalk.info/KelleyTubAssembly.doc

> RTub Assembly from Hiram Kelley parts 1&2 (9/24/2010)
I gotta read this before I proceed any further with my restoration. Carriage bolt discussion in Part 2.
http://www.ttalk.info/KelleyTub.htm
http://www.ttalk.info/KelleyTub2.htm

> BBS Thread: TD tub wood observations and fitting
Hiram's post that was transcribed to "KelleyTub" onBud's site.
http://www2.mg-cars.org.uk/cgi-bin/or17?runprog=mgbbs&access=&mode=archiveth&subject=8&subjectar=8&thread=2010090115415726423
http://www2.mg-cars.org.uk/cgi-bin/or17?runprog=mgbbs&access=11135694403060&mode=archiveth&subject=8&subjectar=8&thread=2010092018574122623

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

Ok, so it would appear there is a discrepancy on if all TD's had carriage bolts or some had hex nuts?

Love some pictures of where the carriage bolts were fitted.
Bruce Cunha

This thread was discussed between 12/09/2018 and 19/09/2018

MG TD TF 1500 index

This thread is from the archives. Join the live MG TD TF 1500 BBS now