MG-Cars.info

Welcome to our Site for MG, Triumph and Austin-Healey Car Information.

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG TD TF 1500 - Chassis ID Plate Location

I was communicating with Tim Burchfield today and he mentioned that his chassis ID plate is mounted under the toolbox lid. His car is a 53.

I have never seen an ID plate under the tool box. Is this something they changed in 53 or ?
Bruce Cunha

Changed late in 1953. I need to update some of the pages with this. I have a few numbers but nothing definite yet.

Somewhere around TD27xxx
Christopher Couper

www.mg-cars.org.uk/mgtd/mgtd_production.htm#Feature
Christopher Couper

So where did the Body plate go then?

Matthew.
M Magilton

I have a photo showing a partly stripped and unrestored TD29638 with the chassis plate in the usual firewall position.

Matthew.
M Magilton

Mea culpa. I was mistaken. It was the body plate that went under the tool box lid. I remember removing the plate from the bottom side of the lid. But something (old age) caused me to think it was the chassis plate. Notice the holes in the photo. Too close together for the chassis number plate. There are no plugged holes on the firewall of my 53 TD where the body plate would have been fastened in previous years. Sorry guys.

Tim

Timothy Burchfield

Chris, my 53 with the tool box body ID plate is TD26711. Although the lid might have been changed there are no remnants of holes in the firewall where the body ID plate would have been in previous years.

Tim
Timothy Burchfield

Tim: I will move my numbers down a bit. We have been trying to bracket this for years.

Website updated

Sorry Matthew. This change is only for North America TD's as far as we can tell. Once again OZ loses out. :-)
Christopher Couper

Chris, just FYI, the highest TD chassis number I've found so far with the firewall mounted body ID plate is TD24695.

Tim
Timothy Burchfield

Tim: I will continue to bracket the number.
Christopher Couper

I've already passed this to Chris but
the lowest Chassis number I've found with the tool box mounted Body number plate is TD26228. Just FYI for those interested.

Tim
Timothy Burchfield

The sense of swapping plate locations dependent on just the export market completely escapes me.

Matthew.
M Magilton

Matthew, might have something to do with import laws.

Tim
Timothy Burchfield

Another of those lovely MG curiosities.
Bruce Cunha

Curiosities indeed. I'd also like to know why MG thought white felt was the way to go for the tool box lining.

Tim
Timothy Burchfield

"I'd also like to know why MG thought white felt was the way to go for the tool box lining." Because they saved a few pence by not dying it? :-)

Matthew: Tim spotted a home market car TD27199, RHD, that has the toolbox body plate so the mystery continues.

Keep your eye out for any down under 53's that have this feature.
Christopher Couper

Maybe it s bit like "never buy a new car that was made on a Monday". Car plate might be a similar case!

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.
Gord Clark

Chris, finding an RHD example is what I would have expected. Yes, I will watch for any more.

Tim, your query to John Cockrem has been forwarded to Doug Hastie who keeps a national Australian TD list with several later cars. Hopefully one of his contacts will help bracket the change.

Yes, 'natural' (not 'bleached' as many restorers seem to use) felt for the tool box. Would have been the base-price material.

I wonder if Carbodies moved the plate to the tool box lid so that if any of their tubs failed inspection (or got a dent in transport) then they could easily switch lids and keep the books 'tidy' whilst they got around to rectification later?

Matthew.
M Magilton

"I wonder if Carbodies moved the plate to the tool box lid so that if any of their tubs failed inspection (or got a dent in transport) then they could easily switch lids and keep the books 'tidy' whilst they got around to rectification later? "

Well you still had the chassis ID on the frame but unscrupulous repair shops probably did not care/notice.

The lack of a VIN was a problem for most cars during this period. What number did you use? Chassis number, engine number, body number? If you did not know what these numbers meant you could pick something that was not really unique to the car but just a number common to the car type.

In my case my car is registered to the engine number. And interestingly my car got a swapped engine in the 1950's but the repair shop was smart (cleaver? - see above statement) to recognize this issue. So they pried the ID tag off of the old engine and placed it on the replacement block. You can see the discrepancy if you look closely at my block and tag but your average DMV person would not notice it.


Christopher Couper

My 53 has the engine number as the VIN number as well. I'm hoping Ohio DMV will be understanding in changing it.

Tim
Timothy Burchfield

"Well you still had the chassis ID on the frame but unscrupulous repair shops probably did not care/notice."

Chris I meant when the body was new and not yet mated to the chassis (therefore no engine or chassis number present). I image occasionally a body tub got some minor damage in transit to Abingdon.

Matthew.
M Magilton

Matthew, I can tell you from a database I'm keeping that the body numbers were sometime widely out of order corresponding to the chassis numbers. Other times they were in order for some time. It could be that bodies scheduled to be put on chassis had damage that needed to be repaired and the body was put on a later chassis. Or it could be that the bodies were stored in such a way that picking them out wasn't always in order. As you know there are two body numbers on the second line of the number plate. The first is a sequence number most likely assigned by MG the second number is the number stamped into the wooden frame at the base of the LH door opening. Although most people have little interest in the body numbers I've always wondered why MG thought they were important enough to go to the time and expense of fabricating and affixing a plate to the car.

Tim
Timothy Burchfield

I doubt if MG were responsible for the Body plates, that would have been Carbodies plate for their own record keeping. Hence they are usually out of order.
M Magilton

Matthew, I'm pretty sure MG was responsible for the body plates. The first number on the second line, what I call a sequence number, follows the chassis number by a certain amount while the second number, the one stamped on the wood frame does not. It would be impossible for Carbodies to know when a certain body would be installed on a certain chassis. For example the sequence number for TD14869 is 14230 a difference of 639. The sequence number for TD14893 is 14254 also a difference of 639. The body number for TD14869 is 84451 a difference of 69528. The body number for TD14893 is 84297 a difference of 69404. If Carbodies were stamping the plate and supplying it to MG the sequence number and the body numbers would be in numerical order. But in fact while the sequence numbers are in order the body number for the later car is actually smaller than the one for the earlier car. So here's my proposed scenario. MG factory picked a body from stock, not always in the order in which they were received. The assigned a number to the car that was in sequence with the production line. They stamped this sequence number with the body number (stamped in the frame by Carbodies) on a plate and attached it to a car. If you see a flaw in my scenario let me know.

Regards

Tim
Timothy Burchfield

Good sleuthing Tim!
A few more for your list in case you don't have them:
TD310 162/48081
TD324 176/48073
TD325 177/48068
TD326 178/48072
TD328 180/48067
TD329 181/40864

Cheers,
Matthew.
M Magilton

Matthew, thank you very much. These are new to me. The more numbers I have the more I can help people who have lost their original body numbers.

Regards

Tim
Timothy Burchfield

Oops 40864 should read 48064
M Magilton

Got it thanks.

Tim
Timothy Burchfield

I wonder also if color has something to do with it? For example they batched a bunch of cars being painted the same color and then stored them away. Clearly the popular colors (red/green) could run in sequence and then suddenly an order came in for a black or silver car and they then just plucked one out from the sidelines.
Christopher Couper

Chris, did the cars arrive from Carbodies already painted?

Tim
Timothy Burchfield

Yes, painted.
TF colour batches were usually about 20 to 40 cars at a time (TF's have the colour code on the chassis plate) so I presume TD's would have been similar.

Matthew.
M Magilton

" so I presume TD's would have been similar"

With MG in the early days I would not assume anything unless it was archaic. :-)

I was looking over my ProForma windshield tag and the chassis numbers were 19647,19646, 19629, 19626 for the four red/red cars and then the two black/red cars on the same tag were 19727, 19726.

Clearly some batching was going on WRT colors IMHO.
Christopher Couper

How about the wings, bonnet and spare tire rack, were they all painted at Carbodies or at the car factory? Pulling car bodies out of body number sequence to match a paint run makes more sense than defective bodies. And if the wings, etc were painted at the factory it would seem that it would be easier to do a batch to match several bodies at one time.

Tim
Timothy Burchfield

Matthew, what is the source of the information that the bodies were painted at the body plant? Granted it is 1931 film but it shows the bodies and wings being painted at the factory.

Tim
Timothy Burchfield

Cant say about body, but when I first restored my TD, I did a hot dip lye tank to strip off all the paint off the fenders, hood, running board and front and rear splash aprons.

When we got the parts back, they were entirely bare, but we did find an inked number stamped on each piece. The numbers were three digits and while not in a numeric order, were within about 75 of the other parts.


I assumed these were some sort of inventory number from the body manufacturer.
Bruce Cunha

Tim, the photo that I have attached was also used in "The T-Series MG's" by Graham Robson. His caption to this photo says "A near complete and painted MG TD centre body section at the Morris Bodies Branch in Coventry". You can also just make out the upholstery lining. The hood and side screens were also fitted here.

Matthew.



M Magilton

Chris, I don't think your Nuffield Exports proforma reflects the assembly line sequence, but rather the marshalling of cars to fill the Hambro Trading order.

Matthew.
M Magilton

This thread was discussed between 25/09/2018 and 02/10/2018

MG TD TF 1500 index

This thread is from the archives. Join the live MG TD TF 1500 BBS now