MG-Cars.info

Welcome to our Site for MG, Triumph and Austin-Healey Car Information.

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG TD TF 1500 - Distance from engine to steering shaft

I noted today that after getting the engine bolted in, the front engine plate is touching the steering shaft.
I assume there must be a little play in the front engine mount holes that allow me to move it towards the other side a tiny amount.

Does anyone have a good picture of the amount of gap between the front plate and the steering column?
Bruce Cunha

Somewhere there was a write up about the new production front mounts being too short. I think someone made shims to raise up. Otherwise loosen all the various mounting bolts front and rear, slide the engine forward and to the right as much as possible. Also jack up under the sump at same time, then tighten all bolts. I would guess there should be a half and inch clearance. George
George Butz III

I ran into the same issue. I fabricated a plate the same dimensions of the base plate of the front engine mount to get clearance.

Horrible reproduction and should be corrected.

Frank

TF1414
Frank Cronin

Try shortening the stabilizer link.
YS Strom

If the stabilizer link is in a neutral position do not use it to correct the issue! If you can’t slide the engine to gain the clearance make slotted dimensional shims from 1/8” plate to slide beneath the front mount and chassis


Bill Chasser
TD-4834
W A Chasser

Dont have the stabilizer in yet. Figured I should reposition it as much as possible.

Interesting you mentioned a shim. When I dismantled the front mount, I did find a plade under the mount.

I will put it back in and readjust things as much as possible.

Thanks again.
Bruce Cunha

Tightening the stabilizer a little has not given me any problem and will reduce the torque load on it when driving.
YS Strom

Even with original engine mount and a neutral stabilizer link...it was never very much clearance, like 3/8 inches. I shimmed up my front mount with large steel washers to get relief.

Brian
ZBMan

Not having the stabiliser neutral can bring in some unwanted vibration. It can also snap the engine bracket (not something you want to deal with a TF!)
Ray TF2884
Ray Lee

With stabilizer adjusted to half way between rest and full torque, it is likely give approx. half the load on the stabilizer, compared to fixing it in neutral.
YS Strom

Using the stabilizer link to pull the engine away from the steering shaft can cause the bracket base to crack over time, I had to repair mine for the same reason. Let the engine free stand and make adjustments by raising the front mount and/or adjusting the mount to the side if possible. Then with the engine at rest, adjust the stabilizer with equal pressure on both sides of the rubbers. It's only purpose is to compensate for torque. PJ
PJ Jennings

I put the plate back under. This has moved it enough that it is not touching the steering shaft. but is still close.

I have not put the stabilizer in yet. I am thinking that it should not be put on until all the add on's such as the manifold, starter, generator and carbs are put on. I can see that these will impact what is neutral.

That leads to the question of if the motor should sit perfectly center in the car.

If my frame is level and I drop a plumb bob from the ceiling, should the engine set perfectly centered on the string?
Bruce Cunha

How long have these motor mounts been wrong? Are they wrong from all suppliers or just a subset?
Christopher Couper

Hi Bruce,

I am sure you have found your answer by now, but just in case see below. I believe the engine is verticle and a plumb bob should bisect both the water outlet and crankshaft pulley at the centerline of the engine/drivetrain. If not, I would also like that information.

Regards, Bill


WHT

WHT

Shimsing the engine will certainly do the job, but I have adjusted my engine as you described, by shortening the stabilizer a little bit from neutral. This will give a force, let me call it positive, as it tend to elongate the stabilizer. As there will be a negative force due to torque when driving, the load on the stabilizer and its support will be less due to the pre tensioning of the stabilizer, compared to adjusting it to neutral with engine off. As the load on stabilizer and support is actually reduced, I canīt see how that can increase the load on the supports.

With fresh rubber washers installed the stabilizers are very stiff, so I donīt believe it could be a source of vibration during neither load or idling.

This has worked well for three year and given ample room for the steering column.
YS Strom

Hello Mr Strom.

Thanks for your thoughts and recommendations. Not sure if Bruce has a problem, but think a moderate force on the stabilizer should be fine. Any uncorrected missalignment will apply torque to the engine/radiator through the top radiator hose.

Regards, Bill
WHT

Taking a look at my car I see too issues. One the engine front cradle is almost touching the column and, two, the top bolt and nut on the cradle are in very close proximity to the nut for the steering joint. I think this could be a big problem should the nut on the joint get hung up on the cradle bolt nut. I think this calls for first reversing the bolt and nut on the cradle and also shimming the rubber mount to cradle. Will a couple of thick washers cut in a U shape do the job? Pardon the grunge, I need to do some cleaning.


John Quilter (TD8986)

Afraid bolts canīt be reversed. The front flange has threads.
YS Strom

Going back to the stabiliser, the WSM is quite specific about adjusting to a neutral position. WSM A38 page A25.
I fit the complete exhaust system, check the engine rocks about a bit then adjust the bar keeping the unit neutral.
Also make sure the starting handle still goes in.
Ray TF 2884
Ray Lee

Y S Strom: I'm talking about the red bolt and nut, not the one on the steering joint. I should think the red one can be reversed.
John Quilter (TD8986)

John

It looks like a good idea to reverse the bolt, but I am surprised to learn that the column bolts will come so close. In my TD 52 the column bolts will rotate well below this bolt - 25 mm. cc - and also approx. 6 mm. to the rear of it.
YS Strom

Is it possible that the steering spider has been fitted without the retaining circlip. This would put it nearer to the engine plate. I don't know how much it would move.
Ray TF 2884
Ray Lee

It is the spider on the shaft to the gear that gives the position of the bolts.
With a space of 6 - 7 mm. and if the stabilizer is ok, I wouldnīt worry.

Worth checking how the stabilazer is adjusted.
YS Strom

It is the pinion shaft circlip I am talking about. Without the circlip the spider would be closer to the engine plate.
Ray
Ray Lee

Bruce
I see. From circelclip to end of spider I measure 214 mm.

Ray
As you stated it is clearly specified the stabilizer should be set to neutral. However, the bracket for it has a tendency to brake. My was broken when I bought the car and someone in a tread above had the same problem. So if there is a method of reducing the force on the bracket, I think it is worth trying it. After repairing the bracket it has now worked for three years with a moderate pre tensioning.
YS Strom

Just read this thread and it's worth mentioning to check that the crank handle engages with the dog through the front radiator mounting cross member. I had to install a metal plate of about 3/8" under the front mount to achieve the desired alignment. I guess it's rare to use the crank handle to start the engine but it's nice to know that you can if you have to. I'd been hoping someone would demonstrate the correct grip and method at one of the T Type Tech days here but there haven't been any takers. A lost art? Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

If you want the bracket to break then "pre-load" it. It is precisely that pre-load stress/bias that causes it to brake in the first place. What part of "neutral positioning " is difficult to understand?

The force on the bracket IS minimized when it is in a neutral position with the rubbers just equally snugged up on both sides...the water pump mount side and the bracket side.

The front mount can be shimmed for vertical needs. It is the front motor mount and the transmission mount that determine the central location of the engine in the frame.

If the car has been wrecked in the past, as many have been, then all bets are off if the frame wasn't straightened properly.

Brian W.
ZBMan

ZB
I presume the he stabilizer is primarily meant to take care of torque and vibrations, generated by the engine when driving. I.e. making sure it will not tilt CCW. If the stabilizer is extended with reference to neutral, the force generated thereby will add to the force generated by the torque but if it is shortened the force should be deducted from the force generated by the torque. Thereby reducing the force on the bracket.

The torque generated by an engine like an XPAG I guess would be between 300 and 350 Nm . With a distance from the rubber support (not from the shaft) to the stabilizer around 0.5 m. the torque will generate a force of approx. 600 to 700 kP. on the bracket. Canīt see how it will break easier if this load is reduced. But as the bracket is not symmetric and might break easier one way than the other, I would be careful not to overdo it.
YS Strom

This thread was discussed between 20/03/2019 and 30/03/2019

MG TD TF 1500 index

This thread is from the archives. Join the live MG TD TF 1500 BBS now