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MG TD TF 1500 Engine Bolt Info Required BBS discussion at MG-Cars.info
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MG TD TF 1500 - Engine Bolt Info Required
| In the attached pic, which I posted on another thread, #2 is something of a mystery. It isn't French Metric and is probably BSP. It's described in the 1952 WSM that I have as a 'Plug - Oil hole bypass'. The part # is X 679 91 and is shown on page F2, with the illustration on F8. This comes from Issue 1 of the TD Illustrated List of Service Parts, dated 1950. It carries the same illustration as the later 1952 WSM.
Does anyone know where these can be purchased? I'd prefer an original. Used in very good condition is fine. The keen eyed will see that I've missed a plug that is inserted almost vertically between the letter 'k' and the # 13. I'll renumber this pic showing it as #14. This is the same as #1 and #6 and are three of the five oil gallery plugs that Dave DuBois mentioned in his list. The other two are internal countersunk slot heads. The one at the rear of the long oil gallery is brass and the one at the front is identical, except it's made of steel. These I'm keen to get hold of also, but are apparently as rare as the steam at the rear of a rocking horse. I have spare original 1, 6, and 14s and MAY be able to use them internally in lieu of the slotheads, either modified or as is, unless someone can provide me with a reason not to? Cheers Peter TD 5801 
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| P Hehir |
| Peter
This supplier will assist with the plugs (5) and internal (2): https://www.mg-cars.org.uk/imgytr/pdf/madmetrics.pdf Regarding No 2, get hold of a set of thread gauges if you dont already possess same. If it measures at 28TPI it is 1/8 BSPP, if it is 19TPI it is either 1/4 or 3/8 BSPP. More info here: http://www.volz.com.au/thread-identification/bspp-bspt-thread-identification-table/ All BSPP threads are sealed with a compressible material washer not thread tape or sealant. BSPP plugs obtainable: https://goind.com.au/products/go-black-steel-hex-head-plug-range-scr-bsp-bs-en-10241?variant=36190013201 Most suppliers dont have hex head plugs. I would steer clear of anything in steel that is galvanised. Graeme |
| G Evans |
| Peter Chasing found an image of the LH side of an XPAG block, it clearly shows (2) as a hex plug. Graeme 
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| G Evans |
| Thanks Graeme. I have about a dozen of the original external plugs all with the makers markings. It's the two internal countersunk slots that I require, one brass and the other steel. The illustration in the WSM suggests that the hex head in your pic for #2 is correct. I'll contact the supplier and ask about the two internal plugs and this one as well. Thanks mate. I'll send you a copy of our latest digital mag for your efforts. :-) Much appreciated. We only have 44 vacancies now as 200 members is all we can handle. It's a shame you still don't have your TF! Cheers
Peter TD 5801 |
| P Hehir |
| This fella looks familiar--- https://www.ukmgparts.com/product/td-midcat-13-subtd1-engine-external-parts/plug-oil-gallery-side-block-t-x20247 Anglo parts also list them as item no 97--but nla and say to use same bung as in oil pump and filter but that's a flatter looking bung from memory, but if you have one of those you could try it in the thread in the block https://www.angloparts.com/en/catalogues/group/767/mgtd-tf-engine?page=5 |
| William Revit |
| Peter, re the two internal oil gallery slotted head plugs. 'From The Frame Up' offers them. See page 74 of his online catalog. Part# XPL6, Plug, rear oil galley, brass Part# XPL8, Plug, front oil gallery, steel (not cheap!) David |
| David Padgett |
| This the one Peter------ PLUG, oil by-pass hole Part Number: 328-070 |
| William Revit |
| Will At the price quoted I would be taking the $2 non genuine option. Graeme |
| G Evans |
| Peter, I stripped every nut and bolt out of my blown original motor. If you give me lengths and pictures, I will dig through my spares and see what I can come up with. |
| Bruce Cunha |
| That's a big part of the problem Bruce. On the block that I'm rebuilding I don't have the bolt, so I can't provide the details. The pic supplied by Graeme Evans shows the bolt in question but not in any real detail. This block is the same as the one that I'm restoring. Cheers Peter TD 5801 |
| P Hehir |
| Cheers Graeme, more of an identification exersize Don't tell Peter, but the Woosley block he got his crank out of has probably got one init----- |
| William Revit |
| Peter Here is an even clearer image of the Plug(2). Suggestion use your verniers to measure across the flats of the dizzie securing bolt, measure across the flats of the plug. Knowing what the actual physical size the dizzie securing bolt is will facilitate scaling the dimension of the plug flats. Back in the day we used to use this method when fabricating machinery from photographs of competitors products. 
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| G Evans |
| Peter
Well if your a retired old fart and have nothing better to occupy an idle mind sometimes you can have a win. The original Plug (2) P/No is X20247. WKF Wood identifies this as "Brass Plug above Pump Thread 3/8 X 16, Hex 3/16 W". The original Names and P/Nos of the other plugs are also listed, you may want to reference these on your schematic. There are big discrepancies in the prices MG Parts Suppliers are charging for this item, will pay to shop around if you have to purchase from this source. Graeme |
| G Evans |
| Nice find Graeme- So it's off to the boat shop for a 3/8WW brass bolt to doctor into shape By the way , i've been meaning to ask--whereabouts in Tas. are you----just curious |
| William Revit |
| Will I am at Grindelwald, out of Launceston. Graeme |
| G Evans |
| You guys are just down the road from each other! :-) Cheers Peter TD 5801 |
| P Hehir |
| Thanks to all who've contributed. In the image I posted at the start of the thread I drew attention to the plug I missed below plug # 13. Well there's also another one below #1! I only discovered this after I'd temporarily fitted the bolts to the LH side of the block. This now makes sense of the 5 plugs that Dave mentioned in his list. I'm using all original bolts and the most recognizable branded heads in the most visible positions, including the prized BEES. I'll re-post the pic with as much info as I've gathered when I have it all. Cheers
Peter TD 5801 |
| P Hehir |
Peter, even though some of the above post indicate Your No 2 hole is 3/8x16 (BSW), I think that that is wrong. I think it is 10x1.5mm. I tried a stud (10x1.5mm) from the rocker pedistal and it went in. On David De Bois's list of xpag/xpeg fasteners, he lists :- Plugs:- center oil gallery plug as 10x1.5mm. Cheers.Ralph. |
| R E J Stewart |
| Ralph I remain open minded on this question. I don't have either of the suggested bolts, so I can't suck it and see. I really appreciate your inclusion of this as a contender. I have a blown up version of Dave's list which makes it easier to read. So far he's been spot on! The 5/16" BSF for the sump cable bracket wasn't included in what I believe was Dave's original list. It's midnight here. I'll check it out tomorrow. Cheers Peter TD 5801 |
| P Hehir |
| Do I recall that this is the same thread on the exhaust hanger bracket off of the tranny case? I have distant memory of something like that...George |
| George Butz III |
| Peter, I am sure I have several in my shed (AKA Aladdin's Cave). They are a course thread but it doesn't matter what that is if you have an original. I can dig some out tomorrow. Under 1, 6 and 13 are the plugs I think I mentioned before. They are the same as 1 and 6 ... tapered plugs to seal the oil galleries. Do you need some of those too? Let me know. Bob Schapel |
| R L Schapel |
| Bob I have plenty of the 5 plugs that Dave DuBois listed. It's #2 that I'm missing, as well as both the brass and steel slot headed countersunk plugs at each end of the oil gallery. The brass one at the rear and the steel one at the front. If you have one to spare I'd be be more than willing to take possession of it/them. Happy to pay whatever you ask. Thanks mate. Cheers Peter TD 5801 |
| P Hehir |
| Are these the correct plugs for position #2 ?. I have three in my spares. No idea what they are worth. Certainly coarse thread, not mad metric. Tony The Classic Workshop 
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| A L SLATTERY |
| Hi Tony Do you own a thread gauge? I would be keen to know if these are 16 threads per inch as 10 X 1.5 thread is 16.93. Thx Graeme |
| G Evans |
| Hi Graeme I concur with your thoughts - 16tpi & 18tpi are both bad fits, so around 17tpi would fit best (1.5mm pitch). I have now found four of these, and two of them are 11.25mm AF, and two are 11.10mm AF, so some variation in supply. Two are dimpled on the blind end - look at those on the right. So which is an original plug ? - all of them !. Cheers Tony 
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| A L SLATTERY |
| I've been in touch with Tony and he's sending me an original #2 from my pic. Much appreciated to all who've offered to help. The only bugbear now are the two countersunk slot heads at either end of the long oil gallery. These are not visible in the assembled engine. I have the rear brass one in the TD 2 block that I removed the I.D. plate from (no M.G. cast into that block at this stage of the production run), but this is proving stubborn as well. Next step after leaving it soak in WD 40 for a couple of days is to try a heavy duty impact screw driver, with a head that fits the slot perfectly. Otherwise it seems FTFU is the only other possibility. Sportsparts has no stock here in Sydney. Cheers
Peter TD 5801 |
| P Hehir |
| Peter
Stand the block on its end so the offending plug is facing up. Make a well around the plug using wood working putty or "Blu Tack" and fill the well with Brake Fluid. Brake Fluid is an excellent substitute for Penetrating Oil. Leave to soak for a few days, then using a suitable pin punch the diameter of the screw head give it a few smacks with your lump hammer. This will have the effect of stretching the screw threads decreasing the interference fit and breaking any corrosion bond. If you use an Impact Screwdriver there is the possibility to break one of the lands on the head. Graeme |
| G Evans |
| OK Graeme. Brake fluid it is. The brass is obviously way softer than the steel that it has nestled up to undisturbed for about 70 years and I don't want to damage a pristine brass set screw head. The WD 40 is doing SFA. I recently watched a mechanic remove this plug from the block from at the boot of my daily driver. This was the block that I just had chemically cleaned. Prior to the process the tank guy wanted all components removed, especially all oil gallery plugs at either end and it only came out with a massive easy out and a whole lot of force. The bolt head had been destroyed by unsuccessful attempts by an unknown previous owner/s. I also don't want to be the one responsible for destroying a serviceable TD 2 block. Cheers
Peter TD 5801. |
| P Hehir |
| I’ve never heard of using brake fluid as penetrating oil...the best I’ve seen(and used) is a 50/50 mixture of ATF and acetone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CESDxCloCoQ |
| Gene Gillam |
| Thanks Gene. Interesting reading all of the replies. Lots of endorsements. I'll try the brake fluid first as I have some and it gets a few favourable mentions as well, as does the impact driver. Nobody had anything nice to say about WD 40 as a release agent. That explains my lack of success. Cheers Peter TD 5801 |
| P Hehir |
| The joys of owning a home without a garage. This is the 'engine room' today. Cheers Peter TD 5801 
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| P Hehir |
| Air conditioning, dust proof floor, what more could you want-- You be careful there young man,them there boards look a bit slippy |
| William Revit |
This thread was discussed between 08/09/2020 and 20/09/2020
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