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MG TD TF 1500 - fasteners again
|We have size sorted 95% of the 'coffee can' along with 50% SAE stock. Interesting assortment of manufacturers, 19 different brand names to date. One that is of particular interest is a 'SPARTS' 'D' & a 'HT'. I understand the mfg stamp & the D vs R (hardness ?) but what is the 'HT' mark ? I have found only three 5/6 BSF like this, any clue as to what they are and maybe where they go. Are they 'specials'. They are BSF so not MGA's. Also found one 'BEES' bolt, should go on TC not TD I'm thinking from what I've read. Also still haven't found anyone that has original stock of bolts and nuts yet but will advise to others if we find one. I'm not trying to be overly picky but if I'm gonna do it why not do it right the first time. Thanks all for your help so far. JR|
|Maybe the HT means high tensile? What length are they?|
|I've got a couple of "Bees" on my TD. I don't think it was ever cross-pollinated with a TC, but anything is possible. Here is a picture after I plated them. I think these were holding the axle strap, but since the car was largely disassembled when I got it there is no way to tell for sure.|
Are you sure "Sparts" isn't "Sparta?" I've got a lot of Sparta...
|There are quite a few BEES bolts on the TF so I assume they are also on the TD.|
|My TF had never been restored when I disassembled it. The British standard bolts I have found were "Sparts", "BEES", "Rubery Owen", and a few "Newton". I have found other brands in my coffee can, but cannot be sure they came off the TF. Those would be "Woden", "GKN" and "LRC" (CLR??). Most of my mad metric was "Newton". I recall the stories of how Abingdon would run to the local hardware mongers when they ran out of something, so there is no telling what you might find. If Abingdon put it on the car it must still be original, right? Regards, John|
|Thanks all for your input. My bolt sez 'SPARTS', pretty clear to read, about 1" thread length. I have been told the D & R refers to the bolt temper or hardness. If HT does stand for High Tensile and it could for sure, why put D or R on it too? David thanks for the pic on the 'Bees' head with the bee logo, I've not seen that. Mine just sez 'Bees' in small print. Not many in my pile say Bees so I thought they might be left over from TC but to have them on TF's is also very interesting. John-Florida, what size are your Bees bolts and do they have the logo also ? I also have Woden GKN GSF Wiley CRS EWF TWL and many others although I can't confirm these all came from the TD, they were in a can of used oil soaking for years. Anyone know of a source for original fasteners here in the states? JR|
|There is an article or thread out there somewhere with a lot of bolt/bolt head info, but I don't remember where. I don't think anyone has ever reproduced any of these w/ original markings. Check ebay, used bolts do pop up from time to time. Also, maybe contact some of the people that are likely parting out cars. George|
|My TF had BEES, Newton, Rubery Owen, but don't remember seeing any "SPARTS"|
|From experience with many TFs,some of the bolt manufacturers|
used were Sparts,Bees,Rubery Owen,Newton,Woden,CLR,Wiley.GKN.
plus a few others !
The rear guards for example are affixed with 1/4" BSF Rubery Owen,
pointed end setscrews,the engine side panels(bottom edge) to chassis frame were Sparts 5/16" BSF,the lower 'foot' panel to bulkhead was
attached with Bees BSF etc. The HT Coil was often bolted to the bulkhead with Bees bolts.
I have been fortunate to have nearly all original TF bolts,setscrews etc
on the TFs I have restored. On the current 1250,I remember when we picked up 'Aramis', in pieces,from the owners home garage. The 'experts' had taken the car totally apart to do 'restoration' work. Initially'there was no evidence of original bolting. Instead many new, unmarked gear had replaced the originals.However,just before
leaving with the disassembled car,I did a final scan of the garage area.
There in the corner was a blue plastic bucket full of water. Walked over to it and to my joy all the original bolts,nuts,setscrews were in the bottom of the bucket! Phew!
Over some weeks,after mechanically wire brushing every bolt,setscrew,nut washer,spring washer etc., I then re trued some of minor bruising on the heads,and ran a a tap/die over every thread. Had them all Cadmium plated after which they looked Factory new.
If any T type enthusiast comes across any of the original bolts etc.grab them and do not look back ! Forget the stainless variety !
|Jack - Excellent objective. I'll try to help you if I can. There was a young lady years back from the TABC group that started the project & history of the TC bolts (TD & F also). I know she put hundreds of hours into study & research and pleaded regularly for help and input from the group, with very little feedback. She did list her details to those of us that tried to help and I may have those details in file somewhere, I look for you. It seems now-a-days people would rather talk about what tire polish to use and debate that rather than the past knowledge and original details. Some 'Bees' head bolts (Action Mfg Co.)are very rare, the early ones with only a bumble bee logo, then like David's photo with the logo & name. Later issues were 'BEES' in all caps and finally Bees in small print. I don't follow MGA so I can't say for sure if A's used them or not. I think the early Austin Healey folks were buying up everything they could get their hands on but don't know about the 3000 folks, like the Jubilee '0' clamps. I seem to recall 21 different names on her list with others, like Rubery Owen, going to just RO in short. Your find, like Rob's, is pure good luck. In another thread Clark Spares was mentioned but he is long out of them. I don't think the 'HT' letters were ever identified for sure. There was a small company that did have some original restored stock and if you drop me a note off group I'll look that up for you also. I don't think many people really care anymore about the bolt heads except maybe a few like Rob & I. Good luck in your project and quest and don't use shiny new bolts. Frank|
|I think this is a great informative thread, I hope it continues. Would like to see a lot more responses come in. We are in the middle of restoring a 52 TD & a 57 MGA, parts separated on both sides of a six car garage. Since both cars are completely apart I can check things out a little easier. We also have found many different head markings on the TD but have only found one spot for HT of interest. There are two 1/4 BSF that hold the chrome seat back tower to the wheel arch. There are 3 Sparts D HT bolts and one Rubery Owen R 45-55 used on these towers. I'm not exactly sure if these would qualify for a 'High Tensile' location, just thought I'd throw that in. I also have not found any 'Bees' head bolts on the MGA. Curt|
|Yep, interesting thread and details, here is another. My very late 53 TD (still in pieces) doesn't have the HT head markings, instead I have (4) 1/4 BSF bolts with oversize heads that measure .520 f/f. I guess this is just another undocumented factory change using what they had to finish the TD run before moving on to the TF's. Scott|
|Hi Jack, As a follow up, I think I have found a source for your original head stamped bolts. Please contact me off group for details. Cheers Frank|
This thread was discussed between 08/06/2016 and 20/06/2016
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