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MG TD TF 1500 - gear growl

Hi everyone, just curious if anyone has found a cure for the notorious gear growl experienced in 1st and Reverse. I recently had the gearbox out to replace the clutch and throwout bearing so I had the gearbox looked at. The mechanic said other than normal wear and tear for a 65y/o car, gears looked good and no metal shavings. Thanks
Keith Yarbrough(TD 1275)

Keith,
1st is a 'straight' cut gear, while the other 3 are helical. So...it's always going to make more noise. 1st also has a lot of torque and tends to stress the Layshaft and Bearings on that end of the LayGear more. It's good the mechanic said the Gears look good. They can get quite knackered. Wear of the Layshaft and Bearing is best determined during disassembly.
Mike
M Brand

I have never heard of a T-series TD/TF that did not have noisy first and reverse gears. Both those gears are spur cut and that in itself creates noise.
Sandy
SANDY

It might be a good idea to just replace the Lay shaft and all the roller needles - to get it as near STD as possible. Wear in the casting can't be easily fixed but the rest can be replaced with good parts.
Also check the float of the Cluster Gear on the shaft. Reportedly it should be around 0.004 thou.
You can purchase thicker Bronze thrust washers now and gently lap them back on plate glass with compound to get the correct cap. Should be almost as good as new.

Noisy still :) but sound.

Just a thought.

Rod
R. D. Jones

They are all noisy for the reasons stated above. George
George Butz

All 3 and reverse are straight cut in my '30 Model A. There are noisy. All of them. All of the time. Yep.

...
MAndrus

My gearbox is now a cardboard box full of gears.

>> Where/what/how do I measure for the four-thousandth "float on the cluster gear on the shaft?"

>> If I have excess float, where do I buy "thicker bronze thrust washers?"

I'll probably assemble and disassemble again before I start the final rebuild. This is my first time inside a box, so I'm learning as I go.

Thanks,

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

Lonnie
It has been 30 years since I did my box.
But you have to assemble the lay shaft cluster in the box without the main or driven shaft installed. You can then insert a thou gage into the cap between the thrust washer and the cluster gear to ascertain what gap you have now.
Moss has thrust washers. Front and back. You could ask them to measure them to see if they will suit our purpose. I did read somewhere that someone was making bronze washers oversize to sort out this issue but I am blowed if I can find it now. (Old age setting in) Maybe someone else has seen it and can point you in the right direction - I will keep looking.

Have you seen this writing by Neil Cairns?
It is the same box as ours, just the remote extension is different on the Y - so it is pretty helpful.

http://www.mgccyregister.co.uk/technical-information/the-xpag-files/xpag-rebuilds/xpag-gearbox-rebuild/xpag-gearbox-rebuild-part-two-removing-gearbox/

Rod
R. D. Jones

Thanks Rod -

That's what I needed to know.

Yes, I have Neil's article. I used four documents to disassemble my gearbox ... the WSM, Peter Hehir's WSM update, Neil's article, and Barrie Jones' video. Everything came apart easily. But now I'm trying to learn what I am looking at.

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

I think this may be of help Lonnie,

Info from Bob Grunau,

http://www.ttalk.info/Grunau.htm

Don't know if still available but worth a try.

Rod.

R. D. Jones

The first time I got into a syncromesh gearbox I ended up with tiny little springs and ball bearings all over the shop.

Those who know what I'm talking about know what I did for hours after that event took place, right guys?

.....
MAndrus

Check your clutch pedal adjustment. After having a new clutch installed, the pedal throw has changed and you may have to tweak it. If there's no free play, you may be amplifying gear noise. That could also lead to early clutch demise.
JRN JIM

Here's a dumb question- after the trans was removed, was the lube drained and never replaced???
grrrrrrrrrowl

My brother once bought a brand new Ford pickup.... with no lube in the trans.
JRN JIM

Well, thanks for all the responses. I did check the pedal throw and freeplay measures 3/4 in. I checked and double checked fluid in the gearbox. I'm using Redline mt 90 this time. Guess I'll have to treat myself to a 5 speed conversion or a gearbox rebuild for my retirement next year. I have no trouble shifting although sometimes it's hard to get it into first gear. This usually happens at a stop light with about a million cars behind me.
Keith Yarbrough(TD 1275)

I've found that, if the thing doesn't want to go into first at a standstill, putting the lever back in neutral, releasing the clutch and trying again usually works. Or you can put it into second, then first. Of course, that's the ideal. Usually I just sit there, clutch down, shoving the gear stick and cursing.

David
David Provan

Lonnie, I found Horst Schach's section on the gearbox particularly useful. I photocopied all the relevant printed material & put it in A4 sleeves to form a handy reference that I could handle & not worry about getting grease all over it. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Keith,

Dave,s advice it correct. You can develop the habit of shifting to second gear from neutral and then to first. Learned to do that in the 1950s and it still is my habit today. Once you get the habit it is so quick that no one will even notice.

Enjoy that car.

Jim Haskins 1953 TD
J. M. Haskins

Throwing it in neutral then trying to find low will leave you people saying " if you can't find it grind". When you come up to a stop in second presumably ( I always downshift) while at a stop gently roll the car a few inches in second, de clutch and move the stick into low. It should go in without the embarrassment and the gnashing of teeth

Regards

Bill Chasser jr
TD 4834
W. A. Chasser Jr

This thread was discussed between 21/05/2015 and 23/05/2015

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