MG-Cars.info

Welcome to our Site for MG, Triumph and Austin-Healey Car Information.

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG TD TF 1500 - Generator rebuild

Anybody have the name of a supplier that rebuilds generators for TD's? I want one rebuilt using the same frame because of the date code that is on it.

Mark Strang

A local automotive electrical rebuilder can do an overhaul. You can do it yourself. Buy a bearing and a bushing for the end caps and a set of brushes. So long as the commutator hasn’t thrown its windings or the housing has damaged field coils simply clean the the commutator with a piece of crocus cloth and put it back together
W A Chasser

A basic overhaul is not the issue. I need it rewound-both the fields and the armature and a new comm.
Mark Strang

Although not cheap, Star Electric in Monrovia, California does an excellent job.
http://starautoelectric.com/

British Auto Electric in Anaheim, CA is also good but I don't know if he re-winds armatures and coils. If it's that bad though, it might be worth replacing the worn parts rather than repair.
Steve Simmons

Bill I'm looking to rebuild four generators, but only two have the correct end plate for the tacho drive. I've had each tested and the output is fine, but they all have grumbling bearings. Replacing the brushes and cleaning the commutator as well as a total clean and respray, is the plan. I'd like to buy bearings and bushes so I can do the job, but a Moss part # isn't of much use. And I'd like to source the bearings and bushes here. Anybody know the part numbers of suitable bearings from a known bearing manufacturer? I can then find a match on the internet and a local supplier. I could also strip one of the gennies and take the old bearings and bush to a supplier and have them matched, but I'd like to have the parts on hand before I strip any of them. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter,

The front bearing for the generator is 6202, they are really cheap.

John
J Scragg

The old bearings should have their number on the side/edge. Most bearings are redily accessible (unless old Rolls Royce!!!). Recommend you make sure they are shielded both sides.
JK Mazgaj

Thanks John. So all I need now is the size/descriptor for the rear bush. I'll see what bearing 6202 does when I google it. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter,

Attached is a table from the Lucas master parts manual showing the dimensions of the rear bearing. You may have either the C39PV or the C39PV2 generator. they have different sizes.

John.

J Scragg

Mark,

I used Star and they did an excellent job, even repaired the pulley.

A satisfied customer.

Jim
James Neel

John to the rescue again! Three of the 4 are C39PV2s. I've saved the table. Thanks mate. You're a champion. The bearings though are interesting as there appear to be a range with the same part number. Shielded has been recommended and as there doesn't seem to be a means of lubricating the front bearing, unlike those in the original water pumps, this clearly has to be the way to go. I just came across this in the archive John and it's one of your posts. " However it would be better to replace it with a fully sealed bearing, Modern reference 6202-2RS-SKF". I'll chase them and the bushing up tomorrow, as I'd mentioned earlier, I'd like to have the parts needed on hand before I dismantle any of them. There are some great tips on removing the bushing in the archive and even a DIY means of testing the output and condition of the field windings. As there are rivets involved with the bearing removal it does seem that my pop rivet gun could get some use. I have a huge range of popular sizes left over from my time in construction. Seems like a really inexpensive, simple and straightforward refurb. Ideal lounge room job on these winter nights. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Back in 2005 a now-deceased NEMGTR member, Jim Holcombe, produced a rebuilding kit that included a rewound armature and bearings. See http://www.ttalk.info/Holcombe.htm for how I did the installation. I found it much easier to replace the rivets with pan-head screws and nyloc nuts. Bud
Bud Krueger

I too folowed Buds directions and rebuilt my Genny. Only thing I noted was to chamfer off the corners of the pan head screws that hold the bearing in, to maintian clearance with my fan disc. Also I had to add a thin washer behind the fan disc to keep the disc on the woodruf key & keep some clearance between it and the end plate. When the pully goes on it holds everything firmly. Your fan disc my be different?




Rod Jones

I had a look at the ttalk site but when I tried to blow the tiny pics up they blurred and unfortunately it was impossible to see the detail. I won't need a rewound armature as all four test fine. A google search suggests that the Holcombe kit no longer appears to be available as there is now a bedding company at that address. Your pics Rod clearly show the issue with the fan clearance, if using nuts and bolts. It was recommended in the archive to use pop rivets to replace what I assume were originally solid rivets. This will be my preference. I'll note the head type during the dismantling process and the clearance and select a blind rivet to suit. I won't know about the fan disc until then. I had a call a couple of days ago from a guy with a TF asking about whether it was the Woodruff key that held the fan in position and I wasn't able to answer him. His fan was worn in the cutout for the key, presumably because it was loose on the shaft. I'll take pics during the dismantling and reassembly of the C39PV2 gennies and document both the process and the source of the bearings and bushes here in Sydney. I'll also include a link to the most informative thread that I can find in the archive. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

This is the fan on my C39PV2 gennies Rod. This one came from a 4/44. The armature will need to be extended to permit the installation of the tacho drive and the end plate will also need to be changed. The green paint is the indication of its origins. Cheers
Peter TD 5801

P Hehir

Hi Peter getting the pulley off might prove to be the hardest part of the job , your auto elec has proper tools for this job itook my rear bush to my auto leccy who supplied a new one for few dollars yes front bearing is rivetted in but bolts will do not pop rivets gordon w
Gordon Wright

Peter,
The cheese head screws were cheap and easily available along with the stiff nuts. They do a good job of holding the bearing. I added the spacer washer to ensure the fan disc was actually on the woodruf key, My fan disc seems to be made of copper and is in two part soldered togethe? No idea if original but it was on the car in 1972 when I rebuilt it. It was this that touched the heads of the screws just, simple fix, file a bit off the corners. The pully is made of Bronze from the look of it and it does trap the fan disc to the spacers tightly when fully torqued home.
I heated the end bushing in oil in the oven ( wife was out) to get oil into it before fitting to the end plate when cool. Everything works fine.


Rod Jones

G'day Gordon. First time I've seen you post. No doubt the auto electrician has the tools and the skill, but I have a few pullers if needed so I'm confident I can remove the pulley, replace the bearing using either of the two successful methods mentioned in the archive and also R & R the rear bushing. Why pay someone when the job can be done for just the cost of the bearings and the bushings? And I get the fun of learning another skill as well as having the satisfaction of knowing that all due care was taken and the job was done properly. If I have to resort to nuts and bolts Rod I'll be mindful of the potential for fouling. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

The bronze bushings have proven difficult to find here so far; (0.594" x 0.716" x 0.875"). However the bearings are readily available for less than $7 AU each. Is there a source of this particular bushing in Australia outside of the normal M.G. supply houses? The critical dimension would be the OD (0.716") as the length can be dealt with, as can the bore with a reamer, but they should be available surely? I've even tried to find metric equivalents,(not that there are any). Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter, bronze bushing stock is available from bearing suppliers in various sizes and by length - I think you have access to a lathe so it shouldn’t be too hard to reproduce. That’s how I did the brake peddle bushing on TF 2071.
Chris
C I Twidle

Thanks Chris but I don't have one, but do have limited access to a lathe, but I don't want to stretch the friendship. Out of curiosity I see that FTFU stocks them, so they have to be coming from a manufacturer out there somewhere. Like Mark I'm also keen that the casing with the early date be retained. It's possible to replace everything else using 'donor' gennies. Just retain the rear end plate. Everything else can be swapped over. What follows is from a FTFU 2020 catalogue. The 147-600 is a Moss number. Doug's catalogue confirms that the C39PV2 was fitted to the late TD/TF. It was also fitted to many other marques as well, including the 4/44.

13 - Electrical EL335 Bushing, gen. commentator end TD/TF 1 1 $6.75 7 147-600. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter,

These bushes are not just bronze, they are sintered bronze, also know by the trade name of "oilite" in this case it is not a good idea to re-machine the material. The base product is a powder forced into a mold under high pressure. The advantage of this is that being porous it holds oil, making it "self lubricating"

John
J Scragg

Thanks for the heads up John. I'd used sintered bronze bushings on the repairs to the door hinges and understood their oil holding properties but I wasn't aware that they weren't able to be reamed. I have a supplier in Brisbane that I'll call tomorrow afternoon who may have a suitable sintered bushing. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

I used Joe's Auto Electric in Middletown, CT. I was referred there by Abingdon Spares--they use them to rebuild all their generators and starters. Did a great job. I'm local so I was able to just drop it off. Not sure how they handle stuff remotely but these days seems like everyone is figuring that out. If need by, I'd be willing to have you ship it to me and have me drop it off and pick it up for you and ship it back.
J Cosin

John,
You can indeed machine sintered bronze bushings. I buy bushes from a manufacturer here.
https://caspar-gleitlager.de/produkte/gleitlager/rohlinge/82/rohlinge-sinterbronze/?c=53
The website is only in German but it does state that the sintered bronze bushes can be machined the same as solid bronze. This company will make any size bush that is required.

Regards
Declan
Declan Burns

Thanks for the posts gentlemen. For the DIY's here in Oz the bushing sizes mentioned above are of course not available over the counter. The closest imperial size is 0.5" x 0.75" x 0.875. These are a few of the remaining imperial old stock items from a supplier in Melbourne. The length is perfect, however this will mean reaming the 0.5 bore to 0.594" and turning down the OD from 0.75" to 0.716". Given the age and inevitable wear this is no bad thing, as the machining should ensure a perfect fit. Each bush can then be machined to accurately suit each genny. The Oilite rep in Melbourne however does strongly recommend reboiling the bushes in oil once they'd been machined. He is forwarding me an information sheet from Oilite in relation to machining sintered bronze bushings which outlines this process. The item cost including express postage is $15 each and I'll have them early next week. The bearings are a bit less than $7 each so all up just AU $22 to restore a genny, some blind rivets, plus a few beers for the guy with the lathe. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

The Tech sheet just arrived and after machining sintered bronze bushings it recommends boiling in oil at 60 - 70 degrees C for 10 to 15 minutes and then allowing to cool in cold oil. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

There's an easier/quicker way Peter
Sit the bush upright on the palm of your hand, fill it with oil(20)then with your other thumb on top of the bush, push and hold the pressure on, you'll see it starting to weep but keep pushing till it's completely wet on the outside---done and in under a minuite




William Revit

You don't need the scars all over your hands, just ordinary hands work ok
I thought the correct bushes were still available
Aren't they the same as early Minis and Bugeye sprites PartNo 238567




William Revit

Peter,
Have you tried Industrial & Bearing Supplies 3/66 Bryaant Street, Padstow tel. 97714944. If they don't have oilite bushes in stock then chances are they will get them for you.
John
J Walton

Just back from there John picking up the bearings. They are the best place in Sydney to get this sort of gear and the least expensive. I asked if they had 1/2" x 3/4" x 7/8" sintered bronze bushes, but no joy, so I purchased 1/2" x 3/4" x 1" and cancelled the order from Melbourne. These were just $8 each! I dunno about the other bushes Willy. I didn't try the usual outlet here as the parts are imported from you know who and with freight and markup they are invariably very expensive. The other thing is that there are subtle differences in the dimensions of the bushes depending on what genny model you have. Declan's post showed about 5 different sizes. I've been caught out with parts from there before with door lock screws, windscreen corner brackets and fuel tank sender screws, all of which were incorrect. I'm sorted now though, so I'll be pulling the first of the gennys apart shortly. 'Ave a good long weekend! Happy birthday Liz!! Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

This is a full how to including warnings where you can do unrepairable damage.

http://midgetandspriteclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/C39_dynamo.pdf
G Evans

Peter
Just had a look at Graham's rebuild sheet
There's a boo boo in there, 'Don't' drill an oil hole in the bush, the oil will wick out through that into the generator and the last thing the comutator/brushes need is to be flooded with oil
William Revit

Graeme, this is a really brilliant post, right up there with - and in the same vein as your incisive views on recent BBS posts; and so is well worthy of detailed study for those, who like me, are now in their eight decade and are continuing on with this remarkable voyage of discovery! I'll take the time to digest the cautions contained therein and also note Mr Revit's incisive observations. This simply shows that the sharing of knowledge elicits responses that benefit us all. Thanks from/to the T Type crew on the mainland and especially to the guys in the Apple Isle! It should never, ever be forgotten by the rest of the world that OZ was the 2nd biggest importer of T Types after the Yanks AND that we have absolutely nothing whatsoever to apologise for! We were even bigger than GB!! So the vast amount of T Type and pre-war knowledge that is held in trust here should not in any way ever be either ignored, diminished or disparaged... Those who engage in such negativity should, in my humble opinion, simply be ignored, as I have attempted to do... Finally Mark please accept my apology for being responsible for turning what was your simple request for a reputable firm to undertake work on your genny. BUT I've always believed that few people can do the job as well as YOU can, providing that you take the time to arm yourself with the knowledge and to develop the necessary skill. This is what I would recommend. Cheers.
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

This thread was discussed between 31/05/2020 and 05/06/2020

MG TD TF 1500 index

This thread is from the archives. Join the live MG TD TF 1500 BBS now