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MG TD TF 1500 - Help with Robbins Top

I am coming off of an unsatisfactory attempt at installing a new Robbins top. Despite all attempts, it is just too short. The attached photo shows the top in position - I can not get it down the last few inches without putting way too much stress on everything. I tried loosening it with wet towels and heat from the sun, but to no avail.


I noticed that the rear window is large and square, and I'm starting to suspect that this might be a TC top sent by accident. Most TD windows seem to be smaller and have at least two rounded corners.

Can anyone confirm the rear window configuration on a Robbins top for a TD?

Many thanks,

Jim


J Barry

Jim - It looks like you got a top for an early TD with the two bow top, whereas your car has a three bow frame. Cheers - Dave
D W DuBois

Dave, you caused me a moment of doubt and pain, but I looked at Moss photos of a three bow frame, and we definitely have a two-bow. Whew!

Jim
J Barry

what is your frame mounting like, behind the door?
mog

I used the old panels as a template, but that did not quite work. We ended up using the 20.5 inch measurement from Schach's book and put it where it fit (see photo). Seems like it should be close enough. I think our new panels sit a little high.

Jim

J Barry

Jim,
Have you fitted the side curtains yet?
My installer fitted those before determining the location for the frame mounting.
Just looking at the picture it looks like yours are a bit high as well as back further and at a different angle than mine.
That said I would mention that my car is a TF and has a modified 2 bow frame that is wrong for a TF. (should be a 3 bow on mine.)
My installed used heat lamps and a bunch of clamps & sand bags when doing my hood.
Hope you get it sorted, but I would definitely fit the side curtains to see how those line up. If it is too high it will be obvious as the curtains will not fit into the flaps correctly.
Best luck.
David Sheward 55 TF1500 # 7427

It looks like you mounted the front first. I have found that the front needs to be mounted last.
When I install these tops, I put the side curtains in, and then I mark the center of the back. I think Robbins tops may have a little notch cut in them in the back. Anyway, I loosely tack the top in the back with 1" nails, leaving the nail out about 3/4". I sometimes have to move the frame up, down for or aft to get the height set correctly for the proper fitment around the side curtains.

After the rear is tacked in, the gap to the side curtains is correct, and the height is good, I tack the top in the front. Again, I find the center of the top bow, and the top. I pull the top tight, eliminating all folds and wrinkles. It may help to wet the top. Once the fit is good, I tighten and tack for a final fit.
I hope this helps.
-David
D. Sander

I have dim recollection that the 20.5" measurement is wrong and that it should be 19.5. I agree with Davids above on both points. The Moss top is installed in the back first, and the excess trimmed from the front.
George Butz

I just installed an old Moss top and agree with the rest, start from the back. Maybe you can use the frame and some bungees and warm water to stretch it over a couple of weeks?
Best of luck with it...
Geoffrey M Baker

Jim, not sure if this will help or not but the link below has specifics on Robbins tops, sold by Topsonline.com. (This is the same top Moss sells I've been told.)
I recently inquired about their tonneau covers and was told that due to low demand, they are "made to order". Don't know if that is true for tops, but if so might be a chance they made a mistake. I've had that happen before with other such products "made to order". Here's a link with the info:

https://www.topsonline.com/model/Convertible_Tops_And_Accessories/MGTC,_TD_And_TF/1950_thru_1952_MGTD_(2_Bow_Top_Frame).html

Ed

efh Haskell

Thanks everyone. We did fit back to front, with the back lined up at the base of the wood strips. We could barely get the front over the wood - there was no excess.

I tried fitting the side windows, but it was inconclusive - they kind of fit. It did seem like the top could come down a bit. But the frame is located close to the old location. I'm curious about the 20.5 inch measurement. Dave Braun also used that dimension. It just seems like the darn thing too small.

Jim
J Barry

Jim, I tried without success to find the height measurement post in the archives, and Moss no longer has installation instructions on the web site. I'm 95% sure it is suppose to be 19.5". Try removing the pivot mounts and lowering and see if that helps, and is so check the side curtain mounting. George
George Butz

When I installed my Moss top with my 2 bow frame I started with Dave's recommended 19.5" height door to bottom of frame. Because my TD is just a tad catty-wampus I lowered the passenger side by 1/4" and the canvas fit very well. At the time I didn't have side curtains but if I had had them I would have done all the top fitting with the side curtains in place. The stick in the attached image is exactly 19.5". Jud

J K Chapin

Just installed an Abingdon top two years ago. Suggest you use the 19.5 height door to bottom of frame. Definitely work from back to front. Finally wait for a nice hot sunny day, and work outside. Side curtains fit fairly well using this height.
R W Hinton

The old Moss top installation instructions from 8/92 listed the distance needed as 20-1/2 inches on both styles of TD hoods. In reality, as shown in the side curtain section of my website the correct distance should be 19-1/2.

Hope this helps,
Dave
Dave Braun

Thanks Dave. I didn't get that far in your website! It could be that the extra inch will make the difference. However, I still have to wonder if we got the wrong top. Robbins has a picture of a TC with the same rear window pattern (large rectangle with square corners), which is what we have. They don't have a photo of their TD top, but most that I see have the rounded corners.

Jim
J Barry

Jim,
I've installed a few tops but not a T car as yet. I recall reading someone saying, to fit his top (or tops), he stacked heavy books on the front and let them set for a day or two to stretch it down the last 6 inches tight and wrinkle free. Too sloppy, and you'll have to live with the wrinkles or refit it.

I've kept that in mind and have erred to the side of tight.
JRN JIM

So the vertical height should be 19.5" on a TD. Can anyone tell me please what the equivalent measurement is for a TF please!
Dave H
Dave Hill

I'd like to know the measurements for a TF also. I was waiting for my new side curtain Moss kit from LBC, which I had to do as I have no frames and just found out their back ordered. With a measurement for a TF, I could still put the new top on it. PJ
Paul S Jennings

Jim, I installed a Robbins 'Hood' on my TF. That experience, preceded by a lot of research shapes these thoughts.
First, your concern that you have the correct top for the car. I don't know the differences between a TD 2-Bow Frame Top and a 3-Bow Frame Top...if one could be shorter that the other. If any difference, I would expect the 3-Bow Top to be a little longer. But I would suspect a TC is smaller all around. Someone should be able to confirm a TC Tub is narrower. If so, A TC Top on a TD Frame should be noticeably narrower.
You stated you mounted the rear first, with the back edge even with the bottom of the Tack Strips. This 'gives' you a little extra....as the rear edge should just overlap the Tub/Tack Strip joint. But then state that you could hardly reach the Header Rail...and there was nothing to trim off when attached. It's common to trim 1" to 1 1/2" here.
So, as many have pointed out, and you also eluded to....the Frame may very well be mounted to high. An inch will give you more slack. You could look under the side Trim Panels and try to locate the original mounting holes. Take the panels off and mount the Frame at 19 1/2" as a test fit. Also....slack off the 'Floating' Bow...until you have the Header Rail attached to the Windscreen Frame. Then move the 'Floating' Bow into position. That should draw everything taut. Some installations....even the original I believe...have a Screw through the Top and into the 'Floating' Bow, so that would have to be removed. There are other ways to locate that Bow without putting holes in the Top.
You obviously didn't cut off too much material. Lowering the Frame...and slacking the Rear Bow is all you have to work with. Hopefully that will give you what you need.
Here is the old Moss Installation Notes:

http://www.caroholic.com/images/TC%20Top%20Installation_Moss.pdf

The Side Curtains should be mounted to obtain optimal Hood fit.
M Brand

Sorry, It appears you cannot just 'click' on the Link.....but if you Copy the Link and Paste it...it will get you there. ???
M Brand

Paul
I've got new sidescreen frames, but as yet uncovered. The top frame is in and also uncovered. I'm waiting on both from Don Hoods here in the UK. Measuring from the back of the top of the door to the underside of the frame vertically above, I've got 19.25" on one side and 19.375" on the other. This is for a TF - hope its OK.
Dave H
Dave Hill

As a general rule, the TC tops should have a pair of smaller windows but I have seen them with some large single ones.

MG LaVerne

Again, thanks everyone. With the front bow locked in place, and the floating bow down, the hood just barely stretches over the front bow (see photo). There is no way to trim the rounded corner flap, and there is maybe 1/2 inch max extra at the front of the bow. With the floating bow in place, the front bow can't be locked down without a lot of stress.

I wanted to learn as much as I could before going back to Topsonline and Robbins.

Jim

J Barry

Jim,

It is hard to tell from your photos, but do you have the fabric with the draft excluder pre-installed on the top bow?

It doesn't look like in the picture above that you are that short. I also think you have the staples too low on the bow. The trim strip will cover them.

I'm thinking you only have to rearrange the bows slightly and pull the canvas a tad tighter, and you are home free.

See my picture from my website of approx. the same step.

Warmly,
dave

Dave Braun

Thanks Dave, your advice is always welcome. I think the photo is a bit misleading as in reality the corners don't quite hide the wood, and that is absolutely as far as I could stretch them with the floating bow down. But an inch lower on the frame might do the trick.

I'll be contacting Vick at Topsonline, and hopefully he can clear this up. Despite this problem, I have to say that my dealings with both them and Robbins have been very good.

Jim
J Barry

Jim, I think you are making a small error. You install the draft excluder FIRST, with the "eyebrows" that hang over the windshield, around the wood. Then you pull the top up as far as you can (and it looks like you have enough to do the job) then you staple the top edge through the draft excluder, to the wood and use the hidem strip to hide the edge and the staples.
Leastways, that is how I did it. My top did not come over the front edge of the wood! It was quite old (though unused) and had probably shrunk some. Yours definitely comes farther over the wood than mine did...
Before changing the position of the frame, install the draft excluder first, and then see if it all makes sense.
Geoffrey M Baker

Sorry, should have answered Dave's question. Draft excluder is installed tight up against the windshield.

It's really the corners that are the problem.

Jim
J Barry

OK. Well, you still have more canvas than I did. Due to the age of my top (I was installing a kit my father bought twenty years ago) I am sure I was dealing with shrinkage, so I had no choice but to just staple it down and run the hidem strip over the top of the front rail, rather than the forward front side of the front rail... (hope you can understand that sentence :) )...
And I had no bow positioning/height issues as I never rebuilt the tub, I simply installed the convertible into the original screw holes.
Geoffrey M Baker

Jim,

I am presently installing a Robbins hood from Topsonline on my TF and have enclosed some pictures. From my experience the hood will stretch which I believe is important to get a tight fit. I installed the top along the back rail and then stretched the material across the top bows with the floating bow down. I then swung the floating bow in p;lace. You may have notice some discoloration which is the moisture left over from using a steamer to loosen the material and smooth out the creases from packing. I am letting it sit and tomorrow, since we will hopefully have a nice sunny day in Maine, will let the car sit in the sun to loosen the fabric further. There was a label attached to the back edge of the hood with the following information which although probably pertains to a TF hood might be helpful.

2102C ST TAT SP
SN125793
W031576

By the way there are two flaps on the side of this TF hood with the inner just reaching the windshield post and the outer set back about an inch..

Bob

R Brown

another picture but from the front

R Brown

Bob,

Thanks, your pictures are helpful. You seem to have about 2 inches more material, which would be about right. A steamer is a good idea, but we did wet it down and stretched it as far as we could - to the point where it won't close - and just barely cover the front bow corners. Did you use the 20.5 inch or 19.5 inch dimension?

I've contacted TopsOnline, and they are asking for photos, serial number and such to send to Robbins.

Jim
J Barry

Jim,
It is a TF so I have about 19.5. I used the side curtain frame to find the most suitable height rather than depending on the door to frame height. Shame your having trouble hopefully topsonline will come through
R Brown

As a matter of interest, how much space do you have between the sidescreen top metal strip and the underside of the hood/ top frame on your TF?
Dave H
Dave Hill

Is the TC tub as wide as a TD-TF? I thought it was narrower?
David Sheward 55 TF1500 # 7427

The TC tub is a bit narrower.
David
D. Sander

Did you get this resolved and how?

Thanks
JWP Policastro

dave,

I ended up with about a finger width of space between the side curtain frame and the hood frame. I have finished the side curtains which fit great when you mount them after mounting the hood. Should have taken a picture but will do so after I finish installing the full tonneau.
bob
R Brown

Ok, that's great as its what I got too. The hood is on and looks great. Woukd have done the sidescreens by now but Moss sent me a strip set for a TD instead of a TF (product incorrectly labelled), so am waiting on a replacement. I find getting the sidescreens frames on and off to be something of a trial, and have chipped the paint a couple of times.
Dave H
Dave Hill

Dave on the car or side curtains? I find on the TD the bottom of the frames are always chipping because of the nut that holds them in place. Perhaps powder coating would have worked better.

Glad it turned out OK.

Joe
JWP Policastro

On the car! Havig said that I can see that its going to be impossible to keep the paint perfect on the frames because of the way the clamps work - though that bothers me less. The top / hood looks OK and is free of any significat creases or waves, and the sides are taut though the inner flaps that the sidescreens rest against on the inside are a bit wavy. I suspect this is more down to the manufacture of the top / hood than anything else and is normal.
Dave H
Dave Hill

This thread was discussed between 15/04/2015 and 28/04/2015

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