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MG TD TF 1500 - Is this mortise too wide?

Do I have a problem with the main wood beams in my TF?

The half mortises for the latch pillars are 4" wide and perpendicular to the beam. The new latch pillars from Abingdon Spares will have a wide gap at the walls of the mortises. The wood appears to be solid. Photo shows new pillar temporarily attached to existing pillar with damaged bottom.

Most photos that I have found show an angled mortise and a tight fitting pillar.

> Is this the original main beam?
Perhaps the mortise was cut wider to remove damaged wood(?)

> Any problem with cutting a couple of wedges to secure the pillar?

Thanks,

Lonnie
TF7211


LM Cook

Main beam with tight fitting angled mortise.

Lonnie
TF7211

LM Cook

The joints should be absolutely tight. I don’t have a TF but that certainly doesn’t look right to me. My two cents worth ...Call Craig Seabrook and see if he has one in stock. The big problem is over time old timbers deform, wear, rot and change dimensionally. At any rate, you’ll not likely find a tight fit in pairing old with new.

Had the main timber been replaced before. It certainly doesn’t look right. Two things you can do. Get it fitted and secured the way you want. Then cut a pair of wedges out of a hard wood ie ash, oak etc and drive them into place with a couple of screws and wood glue. Or if you can lay the tub on it's side and dam the voids with tape and pour QuikPoly it other suitable wood epoxy into the voids.

Maybe LaVerne or PJ will chime in.

Bill Chasser
TD-4834
W A Chasser

Be sure to predrill and countersink all your holes for the size wood screws or SMS you’ll be using so you don’t split the grain.

Bill Chasser
TD-4834
W A Chasser

Hi Lonnie,

Needs to be tight as Bill mentioned. Your second picture is what mine looks like when I took the body skins off.

What did the old piece look like? Was this done to both sides of the car as well?

Frank
TF1414
Frank Cronin

The mortises on both sides are 4” wide and look identical. The bottom of the left latch pillar was cut off above the main beam. The latch pillar on the right side was cut into two pieces. The top piece is the original pillar. The bottom piece had been replaced. Neither rocker piece joined the latch/hinge pillars.

I hope that ash wedges screwed and epoxied in place can tighten the joints. I believe that the rest of both beams is good. The hinge pillar mortises are tight. But I will replace the beams if I must.

Thanks for your help.

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

Lonnie, what did the old pieces that came out of there look like? If the main beams are solid with no soft spots, I'd do what Bill suggests and cut wedges for fillers out of a hard wood. Don't know how far you want to go with this, but the ideal thing to do would to replace the wood in question from the same supplier you bought the new piece from which should be cut to match. Lot of work! PJ
PJ Jennings


I would use Ash. Oak is acidic and will eat steel and plated fasteners. (SS would be OK)
Be sure the grain orientation on the wedges matches the grain direction on the rails. If not they will expand, with moisture, in different directions at different rated and brake the adhesive bond.

Jim B.
JA Benjamin

Having personally seen Lonnie's car, I'm very sure those are the original bottom rails. There was a lot of good original wood that seemed to be in randomly distributed areas. I had to replace the right side bottom main rail, and I recall it was a major pain and required a lot of planning/shaping/sanding to get the fit right. I had new hinge and latch pillars (same supplier) and had to make a couple shim pieces to close gaps. I think that would be the way to go, and agree it should be ash. We used Wellwood powdered wood glue years ago to make canoe paddles- very, very strong and waterproof too. Something like that with perhaps a couple screws would make the repaired piece very strong. I think Lonnie told me Seabrook has retired from making wood. George
George Butz III

I bought wood last fall from Craig and he made no mention of retiring at that time. But if he has it will be a great loss of a quality supplier of timbers. In my opinion his quality was top tier. I hope he passes the torch to some one to continue the production. I am a very satisfied customer of his timbers.

Bill Chasser
TD-4834
W A Chasser

Lonnie,

Your TFs main beams may be original however the exaggerated mortises
are not ! Ideally,good to replace the main beams with new wood. Agree with others re the wedges etc. if you do not want to go with the new beam idea.

Keep at it !

Rob Grantham
Rob Grantham

There is a reason car mfg’s All used ash..it will not split and crack with rigors of road use. Regards, Tom
tm peterson

Lonnie, If you do replace the main rails, you do have your old ones to use as patterns. You could measure, trace around, etc. which would really make fitting a lot easier. The one I replaced was mostly rotted away. George
George Butz III

With slots that wide im the rails, the issue of EXACTLY where to place the Latch Pillar (or styles) needs to be considered.

I am assuming that you are going to re-use your old front quarter panels. If so they are formed to the previous positioning. With new Q-panel you could compensate for a bit of difference in the forming around the "front side rails".

I would strongly suggest that you temporally install the old Q-panels and front side rails, to exactly mark where the door latch pillars go, both position and angle, and only then cut the shims.

I welded in replacement rear wheel wells without testing/measuring them on the car and I am still paying for this error.

Jim B.


JA Benjamin

The angle of the A pillar and main timber is 105° on a TD. Don’t know if the angle is the same for a TF. Before pulling the main timber, if that is something you decide to do, be sure to mark the quarter panels at the gap adjustment to ensure proper door gaps when refitting

Bill Chasser
TD-4834
W A Chasser

Thanks guys,

I'm starting to take a more realistic approach to the wood in TF7211. Looks like other wood was replaced or changed over the car's life, and each changed the original location.

I'll do as Jim suggested … position and fettle the replacement wood to match the quarter panels.

When the location of the latch pillars is confirmed, I'll glue wedges to the pillar instead of to the beam. The pillars have smooth straight sides that will produce a tight glue joint.

So far, I've changed my mind a thousand times about how to proceed. The only thing that I have accomplished is NOT PROCEEDING! Never gonna finish at this pace. I really appreciate your guidance and experience.

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

Enjoy the journey Lonnie. Don't get hung up on the destination.. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Lonnie make sure your door is hung so you can get your gap needed to match the scuttle trailing edge/top of door and front jamb before you settle in the positioning of the A pillar.

Bill Chasser
TD-4834
W A Chasser

Bill -

Thanks, I will. It's gonna take a lot of trial fits.

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

Yes it will. Lol.

Bill Chasser
TD-4834
W A Chasser

I echo every's comments. I had to take my tub completely apart. A combination of rotted and poorly replaced wood including the use of several different species not to mention forgetting to put the T nuts in before the panels were placed. Thankfully I'm also a woodworker so I had access to about 30 clamps of various sizes. Things went together and came apart it seems like a thousand times but the final fit was worth it. Be prepared to drill screw holes then fill them and drill new ones. I rebuilt my tub directly on the chassis which helped guarantee that when I was done, everything still fit. I heard too many stories of perfect tubs which then got all of out whack once they put on the chassis. I also built the doors first and everything was fitted around them. I used cardboard as a spacers to make sure there was plenty of room around the door opening. Once I was satisfied with everything, it came apart one last time and was caulked and screwed back together and painted w/ several coats. Good luck...


J Cosin

Another picture of the wooden tub

J Cosin

Tub complete

J Cosin

Here's a close up of the joint in question. Mine fit pretty tight although I did have to slightly widen the joint to get the correct angle for the pillar. I filled it in tightly as final assembly with wedges.

J Cosin

This thread was discussed between 13/07/2018 and 25/07/2018

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