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MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG TD TF 1500 - Low cost supercharger

Someone asked for a cheap supercharger kit. I took that as a challenge and have now made a complete installation in my TD, using a second hand Eaton supercharger and made a manifold, and a pulley with adjustable diameter, to get desired ratio and pressure. Total cost USD 1 060, plus a lot of work of course. The configuration did not require relocation of the horn, as often is the case when Eaton chargers are installed. A pressure of 0.5 bar gives the moderate boost I am after. The gasket blow when I tried 0.75 bar. When the steam was high, I made an extra set, which I am now prepared to sell, if someone is interested. yngve(at)sua.se

Image - support and tensioner not showen.

To reduce the mental suffering of not only too little power, but also wrong rev, I installed a T9 gearbox - also at a very low cost. If there will be time for it, I might write more about the gearbox installation under another thread.


YS Strom

Hi, I am very interested in purchasing the "kit". I tried to send you an email direct but it got bounced back. Can you reply at jenntoo@shaw.ca.
Cheers, Hugh
H.D. Pite

could you post some further photos showing what and how you did that. great idea, do you have plans you would sell?
TRM Maine

Obviously something wrong with the address given, but yngve(at)powermaxmotor.se should work.

Enclosed image of installation number two.

TRM asked how I got the idea. As an inventor, I always try to make things in a different way. Sometimes it turns out in a better way and the MG experts here have been very pleased with these installations.

At this stage I am not prepared to sell any plans, but I might make one more for sale if I find another suitable supercharger. A new in good condition would cost USD 1 000 more. As they will be run at much lower pressure and power than they are designed for, it is not worth the extra cost for a new.


YS Strom

TRM
Tried your adress jenntoo@shaw.ca but it also bounced, but please try yngve@powermaxmotor.se for further comunication.
B.r.
Yngve

YS Strom

Hi Yngve,

Isn't finding an Eaton supercharger a problem? Until recently I had a prewar MG and many owners were involved in supercharging but period ones were very scarce and expensive! Many used modern ones from Lancias, Mazdas and Mercedes. Also "Cabin Blowers" were used but I have no idea what one of these is. Like yourself I have fitted a Type 9 gear box. How did you sort your bell housing? I bought mine from Andy King for about £300.

Cheers


Jan T
J Targosz

Hello Jan

Eaton superchargers are used in many modern cars.

My supplier of old parts can deliver some if I want, he said. How many that means I don't know. As mentioned, new ones can be obtained for an extra USD 1 000.

As this is not my main ocupation, it will be very much a question of how many I get time to convert.

The T9 gearbox was a great experience.

I made them of segments welded together. It was not an easy job, but if you have the skill required and a good workshop it can obviously be made. Finding the hole pattern and centering it were the main problems. If you know where to find a proper plan of all the holes I would be interested. The bell housings on the market requires relocation of the engine, and cannot be modified to accept shortened gearboxes.

Now I am also looking in to the possibility of modifying another type of gearbox. The Project looks promising so far, but they have only elctronic speedometers, so this is aproblem that got to be solved. That conversion will be real challange.

It is also in the pipe to create a new thread on 5 speed conversions in due course.

B.r.
Yngve
YS Strom

Hi Yngve,

Even though my Type 9 conversion is complete, and working superbly, I am still interested in your conversion. I initially purchased a spare MG bell housing and went as far as cutting off the rear section and fabricating a plate to mate to the Ford box. After numerous measurements I found it impossible to shorten the bell housing. The distance from the release bearing to the clutch cover is fixed by the need for the face of the bearing to be parallel and central to the cover. If I had shortened the distance from the rear of the release bearing to the face of the gear box the there would have been insufficient room for the release bearing to return fully when the clutch was engaged. I had considered a slimmer clutch cover - possibly a diaphragm spring - but that would have meant modifying the rear of the bell housing to fit the ford box and cutting a section a section out of the front part. Eventually I decided to cut my losses and purchased a new bell housing from Andy King. He has had new castings made and has all the necessary jigs to fully machine them. I am also unclear on your mention of the "shortened gear box" There is a triangular web on the rear of the box which needs to be relieved to clear the tubular cross member but I can't see how it can be shortened anywhere else. The Type 9 gear box is an updated version of an older 4 speed Ford box. The fifth gear is made possible by the fitting of a thick spacer plate between the main box and the rear extension. If you are prepared to live with a 4 speed box it would slip into the MG chassis with clearance to spare! I am pleased you are interested in engineering modifications. Working them out is excellent brain exercise.


Cheers

Jan
J Targosz

Hello again Jan

Appreciate your interest in my 5 speed conversion. I can asure you it took me a lot more brain exercise than I had envisaged.

It was not fully correct of me to state that the gearbox was shortened. It was the length of box including bellhousing that was made shorter than standard conversions. This requires some interesting modifications within the bellhousing , that I am afraid I am not prepared to reveal at this stage. I admit though, that the margins are very small.

B.r.
Yngve
YS Strom

Nice work!

What did you end up using for the supercharger? That is to say, what was it originally used on?

I looked into doing such a DIY installation a while ago and found that while there are a lot of cheap used Eatons around, "Universal" models suitable for a DIY installation were hard to find being either too large or made to fit a specific engine, with manifolds and other stuff cast in the body, in such a way to make it very difficult to adapt to any other motors. The little MB M45 looked almost perfect, but the snout is too short for an MG installation and I never could find out whether a longer snout from another Eaton could be fitted to it.

The best price/availability I could find here in the US were the M62s fitted to older GM 3.8s. They are pretty long but it would be possible to cut off some of the extra manifolding and make an adaptor to mount the carb, as in your second picture.
kylemorley

I've got a friend that has a supercharger on his TF. I believe he told me that it was from a Thunderbird-- one of those SC coupes that made in the 90's. Seems he told me that someone out there has converted a number of these for T-Series motors.
David Littlefield

Hello
Agree that most Eaton superchargers have all sorts of funny shapes that make them unsuitable for conversions.
Sorry, but I don't know the origin of the one I have for sale - it might, I say might, come from an Oldsmobile
Yngve
YS Strom

how long is the eaton from the nose of the pulley to where the carb bolts on? I have an eaton M90 that looks like it might fit?
TRM Maine

Throughout the ages, there have been blowers with long snouts and snub noses, that isn't a limitation. If you have to fabricate a manifold, you will have to do your homework when it comes to which blower pully, dimensions of engine pulley, what diameters for how many pounds boost at how high rpm, precise blower location, and so on and so on...

The picture, below, illustrates my mocking up an old S.Co.T. blower, measuring the engine and blower dimensions and studying whether to use the original elbow/belt tensioner.

JRN JIM

The image below shows the aluminum round that will hopefully become the triple sheave pulley. I'm on revision 10 in CAD drawings tweaking dimensions every time I study it!

Since the pulley extends out so far, great pains were taken to get the crank hole a precision fit. It was drilled, reamed and then bored carefully less than a thousandth interference. The boring was in both directions, as it leaves a microscopic spiral one direction and, then the reverse (no change in dimension) cuts the spiral the other direction (if that makes any sense to you) so the ripple from the cut is almost invisible. The last few tenthousandths were polished out with emery cloth until the Moldex billet crank just slides in.

JRN JIM

love this stuff, am not an engineer but am going to give this a try.
TRM Maine


To get the desired speed I made an adjustable pulley. It is then just to make a test drive and see what pressure you get and adjust the pulley accordingly.

The drive pulley I spot welded onto the drive pulley for the generator also gives a considerable extension, but as they are both in steel, it has worked so far. In your case I would have made the hole for the drive shaft considerably smaller and put the pulley in the kitchen oven for a while before mounting. The temperature should of course not exceed what the seals can take.
YS Strom

With the "george folchi" thread having gone from pulley to supercharger, we currently have 2 threads on Superchargers.

I think agreement is that the Eaton M45 is the supercharger to fit our small XPAG motors. This supercharger is used in small Mercs (Minis) and Lotus cars.

CAPA Performance in South Australia has a page showing dimension and data on the M45 although the data diagrams are a bit small to read. see http://www.capa.com.au/eaton_m45data.htm

Stuart

Added: Looking at LaVerne's photos on the other thread, his would appear to have a longer snout.
Stuart Duncan 1953 TD

Strom,
From experience, the engine pulley has to be removed to deal with supercharger or generator belts. There's not enough room under the pulley to remove them. The alternative would be loosen the engine mount and jack the engine up. An interference fit could prove disastrous to the radiator dealing with a puller or the pulley itself. I want it to slide on & off but not have any clearance to wobble.

I'm curious about your adjustable pulley. Is it truly adjustable or is it a stepped, multisheave pulley? How about a picture?

Jim
JRN JIM

Stuart,
I checked out the "spec sheets"... they don't give the displacement! That's like buying an engine but not being told its displacement.

A while ago, I emailed Eaton and asked if there's any reason why their blowers would not operate efficiently running in the reverse direction. They never replied.

Seems like, when you go to try and adapt one, you're on your own.
JRN JIM

I believe that the blower on my TF may have been an M40...I'm just not sure. The new blower for the B is for sure an MP45. It is about the 5th generation.

The 45 is the designation for the volume of air the unit pushes out. It's designed for lower displacement engines. I see on Magnusons site that you can get the blower with a wide varity of noses increasing in 1" increments.

The answer to your question Tom is 13 1/2"

This B blower is a much heavier unit and in addition it appears that all of the new units include a by pass system. Desirable but difficult to fit in low space applications.

Jim I have a 1250... .60 over... I do not believe that Tom L. has a different pulley for the 1500 but I do have and have played with a smaller blower pulley. Lots of fun but in the interest of longevity I put the larger one back on the blower.

I would think any blower designed for an engine say 1 to 2.5 liters would work. I don't see huge difficulties with a project with the exception of the blower to head manifold. The cast pieces that Tom and Moss use (not the same) are not cheap to manufacture. I have seen a fellow fab up his own for a home job he did on his MGB. He went through a lot of trail and error along the way. I'm not convinced that it was worth the effort.

Bottom line is that yes you can source a used blower fairly cheaply, but plan on putting a great deal of thought, money and work into end result.

Just my two cents.
MG LaVerne

Why wouldn't a Subaru blower work? Their small, plentiful and cheap. PJ



Paul S Jennings

Jim

Enclosed image of tool for removing pulley from crank shaft. Use a socket spanner throu the hole for the crank. It gave me no problem to remove it - XPAG TD 52.

The pulley for the blower can easily be spot welded to the main pulley.

The adjustable pulley on the blower is basically split in two pieces and shimsed. This also makes it easier to fit the belt.

Yngve


YS Strom

Any chance of a pic of a blower fitted to a TF? I have only just enough room for the carbs.

Jan T
J Targosz

Picture of blower. The horn is visable to the left of the filter. It has been turned a few degrees to give room for the filter.

YS Strom

I noticed in Y S' pictures that he has shown two different carb set ups. The last photo shows his unit with a later 1 1/2" SU carb. If I were doing a home built I think it does have some advantages. First off the unit itself is considerably shorter which is desirable in the limited space available. The connections for fuel and the overflow tube can be accomplished without the need for the more troublesome banjo bolt affair. The unit also does away with the troublesome cork jet seals as well. Lastly used units are widely available at considerably lower cost primarily due to the fact that they were unit used on the much higher production MGB's. Some may find the the later unit with the float bowl built into the carb bottom desirable for the application but I prefer the side bowl unit myself.
When I was working with Terry for the design installation on my TF I took an old unit I had just to see if it could be used in our application.

Just something to think about for those of you considering tackling this yourself.

I originally tried fitting the very nice cast carb to blower intake nut there just wasn't room in the TF.

MG LaVerne

With the shorter B type carb.

MG LaVerne

And the solution with a flat plate carb mount.

MG LaVerne

A better picture enclosed of my current blower installation in my TD. It is of the same length as the one for sale. How it will fit a TF I don't know.
Yngve

YS Strom

There's no way the superchargers shown in the pics would fit into a TF. There isn't sufficient side room and the pulley would sit where the radiator header tank is.

Jan T
J Targosz

I don't know Jan. I can't imagine he would be any farther forward than mine is.

MG LaVerne

I suspect there might be an issue with the blower case to side panel clearance though.

MG LaVerne

Speaking as someone who sells a supercharger kit made for T-types, I think it worth saying that anyone who can weld aluminum and has access to a machine shop can make a supercharger fit the XPAG engine. There are plenty of Eaton blowers out there, with dimensions that might be suitable. I admire those who have welded up box-section intakes, brackets and modified things to fit. And if it can be done affordably, all the better. But I bet it's not optimal, in terms of look, fit or performance.

The flip side is that a kit specifically engineered to fit T-type cars will be superior in every way. The nose is the right length, the intake has been engineered to give optimal flow, and the pulley is designed to provide a balance between streetability and performance. The kit I sell was designed by the same engineer who designed Moss kits for years, who owns T-series cars, and is concerned about every detail. We use ARP fasteners, for example, and our kits are designed to fit TB, TC, TD (and, with a bit more access effort) TF cars. The kit comes with clear and complete instructions, and is a proven unit with more than a hundred sold. Every blower is mocked-up on an XPAG head for fit, and run on a test bed to ensure everything functions satisfactorily. The carb is a completely re-manufactured carb from Joe Curto (need I say more?). We provide back-up and phone support, and go out of our way to help people through the
purchase and installation process.

Our kit costs $4,295 in aluminum, and $4,795 polished (the polishing alone costs us $500!). The Moss kit costs $4,695 in aluminum (not available polished), and I thing is not as professional-looking as our unit.

Our kit fits without any permanent modification to your TB, TC, TD or TF. Unfortunately, the Moss kit requires that you cut away the radiator stay on the right side to fit a TC or TD, and I have not heard of anyone fitting it to a TF.

So is it possible to make up a blower at home? Sure. Will it work? Probably. Will it be a lot of work? Absolutely. Like everything, the choice is yours. For more detailed information, see mgtrepair.net

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

Tom,
You once mentioned a high performance pulley, something that might be appropriate for a 1466cc engine. Can you sell stock pulleys and the high perofrmance one?

While on the subject of pulley, Strom, I don't have one in hand, but I do believe the stock pulley is cast iron. I am a welding engineer and go to great care welding cast iron, but the thoughts of people tack welding iron pulley to iron pulley makes me cringe. That thought makes me think of pulling the pin on a grenade in front of the engine and closing the bonnet.
I'm machining one from scratch out of aluminum rather than risk welding two together.

Not a criticism, just an opinion.

It reminds me of a very reputable outfit, that specializes in MGs, tack welded a new thermostat to the T-stat housing. When I pulled the hose, the stat fell out.



JRN JIM

Jim

Your concern regarding spot welded cast iron is generally well motivated. As I have run my own mechanical workshop and designed and made equipment for renovation of GE jet engines, I am aware of the risks of welding cast iron. However, I have tried welding pulleys before without any problems and the two I have made have worked well so far and baring in mind how much trouble it took me to remove the first one, when I wanted to replace it with a smaller, I am not worried about that.

As I believe the cover gives some support to the chassis and floor, I made it in steel. I might exaggerate the problem and a structure in glass fiber might also do the job. To make one did not take long. Picture enclosed.

Yngve

YS Strom

Sorry, the comments regarding cover belonged to the thread about low cost 5 speed gearboxes.
Yngve
YS Strom

This thread was discussed between 04/05/2015 and 10/05/2015

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