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MG TD TF 1500 - Lucas Battery Decal

I have picked up my new/old rubber cased battery from Melbourne and I'm really happy with it. Almost 24 hours sitting in a train but it was worth it. The case has a circular area on the front just like the one below and I'm going to have a decal made to fit. I'm using the pic of an original LUCAS battery circa 1949/1950 that came from Lonnie a couple of years back. What I'm hoping to discover is exactly what was printed on this battery and the original colour/colours. Can anyone help decipher the text? Cheers
Peter TD 5801


P Hehir

Across the top - MADE BY JOSEPH LUCAS LTD
Across the bottom - BIRMINGHAM ENGLAND
Dave H
Dave Hill

A tiny detail, but the LTD may be stylised - that is written in a modified version (as it sometimes was / is). For example - Capital L (full size), followed by capital TD (reduced size and underlined).
Not sure but I think the entire emblem was embossed into the battery case. If so you are probably best printing with a white outline on black.
Dave H
Dave Hill

Here is a higher resolution b/w version of the ad you can read the writing on

https://gracesguide.co.uk/images/5/5f/Im1951RAC-Lucas.jpg

But they had many different styles of batteries and this does not really match the ones shown in the manuals. I think it was the style they used in the 40's and probably just post WWII.

Here is an ad that more resembles the batteries in the TD/TF IMHO


Christopher Couper

Peter,
I think Chris is correct about the style of the label for our cars but if you want to continue with your label here is a photo of an example. You can see the exact shapes of the letters in the LTD.


John

J Scragg

Thanks guys. I totally agree that the battery I now have is a late 40's version and does differ slightly from the WSM illustrations, but I'm stoked that I actually have an original rubber cased battery of the period. What's even better is once it dies I can have it rebuilt again and again. Given that TD's began production in 1949 and that a great many parts came from a wide range of sources, this marriage is not totally inconceivable. The guy in Melbourne who rebuilt it for me has been looking for one for at least 5 years and this is the only one he's come across. These cases are as rare as hens teeth. Thanks Dave for the info on the colour and the text, Chris for the clearer detail on the font and John for posting the pic of a LUCAS battery that I'd not seen before. The details are great! Now if anyone has an original LUCAS cap I'm keen to make a mold and cast my own. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter -

Lucas round logos and vertical logos on batteries may have been used at the same time. Both are shown in ads from 1951 on the Grace's Guide to British Industrial History site that Chris posted.
http://gracesguide.co.uk/Joseph_Lucas_Ltd:_Image_Gallery

Link to entire site:
http://gracesguide.co.uk

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

Wow! Thanks Lonnie. Great document. Nice to see the 1951 date beside the round logo battery. Makes me even happier. Perseverance does pay off. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Check out the level-indicator caps on the round-logo batteries on the Grace's Guide site.

Lonnie
TF7211



LM Cook

Another …

Lonnie
TF7211

LM Cook

They had bloody big batteries then Lonnie.. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Maybe someone can create a 3d printer file to create a new tar top battery carcass and caps, that will look the part. Newer batteries then could be inserted into the carcass.

See the attached link
http://www.netbug.net/blogmichael/2015/09/14/lucas-17l-tar-top-battery-solution/

It would look the part and be functional.

Has anyone got the know-how to create the 3d printer file that could be printed anywhere in the world?

Cheers
Graeme
TF9818
Graeme Melville

If new cases can be produced that look the part there are at least two places here that can rebuild them to appear original. One in Sydney and the guy I used in Melbourne. I've emailed the Kiwi mentioned in the link you posted Graeme seeking more detailed pics of the front of his batteries. Hopefully he will oblige. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

The stylised LTD symbol shows up on the Oct 1931 Ad from Graces Guide, but not after that as far as I can see.
Original black battery cases were made from ebonite - a rubber based compound with a high level of sulphur added to give a hard vulcanised case. Unfortunately rather brittle so not favoured these days for long distance shipping. Does anyone use this material these days? - I don't know - maybe Lincon, but they won't ship. Not a material that you could 3D print, not that it matters as long as the part looks correct.
Dave H
Dave Hill

I can do the 3D
STL File!
I would need the piece to measure it up
Regards
Declan
Declan Burns

My next attempt at a "rubber-look" battery case on a modern plastic case group 27 battery will be to apply lucas vinyl decals and spray the sides of the case with a heavy coat of textured truck bed liner. Then remove the decals to reveal the smooth surface under the decals to give the look of a pressed-in logo. No color - all black.

Need to find a vinyl mask material that is easily removable.

Won't look like Peter's orginal battery case, but good for conversation.

Lonnie
TF7211

Lucas vinyl decals on smooth plastic group 27 battery:


LM Cook

Lonnie,
Those caps look very similar to our milk carton caps just sprayed yellow!
Regards
Declan
Declan Burns

Sounds like a good plan to get the embossed look. I imagine you could do it with peelable self-adhesive vinyl if you print the pattern on it then have the patience to cut out where required with a craft knife (X-Acto or Swann Morton).
Dave H
Dave Hill

Declan -

Good eye! You're close. They are plastic tops from 7-Up bottles. I cut off the threaded neck of the bottle and inserted a rubber cork. I insert the cork with the threaded neck into the battery. Then screw the cap onto the threads for a snug fit to the battery. Show only. I replace with the rectangular 3-gang caps for the road.

Lonnie
TF7211

LM Cook

Your approach sounds like a good idea Lonnie. I was thinking along the same lines as my fall back if I couldn't find an original rubber case. I have a Group 27 with the terminals in the right place, sitting on my front verandah, that holds some charge. I'd planned to use this to test out my electrical system prior to start up. I'm keeping my new one dry until I'm ready to drive.

The Kiwi Michael Salter came through with the following info and pics. He says 'The smooth case battery, 1st & 2nd pics are of an original 17L battery. 3rd & 4th are of an Antique Battery Company reproduction. Both logos are 3.75" (95.3mm) in diameter.'

Dave's observation in relation to the Ltd is clear in both sets of pics. The ABC pics show their treatment of the case. Hopefully I can find someone with the skills to come up with some white on black artwork so I can have a decal made, as that is the expensive part of the exercise. Perhaps the artwork file could then be shared with those with an interest who contribute to this forum? I guess the treatment of the Ltd wouldn't be an issue. I'd be happy to live with it. Cheers
Peter TD 5801


P Hehir

Pic 2

P Hehir

Pic 3

P Hehir

Pic 4

P Hehir

Wow. Very nice. This is so over the top I can guarantee no one will ever challenge you on the originality.
Christopher Couper

Seems the artwork is the big problem. The printers want a vector file, which seems to mean they use the pic as 'a guide' and then a graphic designer sets about recreating it from scratch. They tell me there is no way to load the pic up into an appropriate app, press a button and job done - which I'm having trouble accepting. Apparently the big issue with the vector approach, apart from the cost, is in finding the accurate font. Bummer. So near and yet so far.. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Interesting comment on the font. Most of the text looks fairly standard, but the S in LUCAS looks most unusual and may be unique. I can't help thinking that the solution to this is using a peelable mask, e.g. using a laser cut. Technology widely used for publicity material.
Dave H
Dave Hill

I'm clueless with this sort of stuff Dave. Happy to be advised. Just had an email from a graphic designer who says he can design the artwork for $180 BUT no guarantee that the font will be accurate. I also have a printer who says that he can produce 40 for $100 if I supply the artwork. I figure I'm still somewhere between a rock and a hard place.. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

A graphic designer would know all the techniques, so I guess it is just down to the artwork, as said. I thought they could also scan from a photo, but it appears not. I'm pretty sure that Declan would know for sure, but as we know he is not well at present.
Back in my youth (long time ago), I used screen printing of posters for student events, we would laboriously hand cut a mask, or could use a photographic method.
Dave H
Dave Hill

You can make your own decals with a inkjet printer. You won't need a vector file then, just a very high quality (ie > 600 pel) raster image.

https://www.amazon.com/Clear-Vinyl-Decal-Paper-Inkjet/dp/B004JZYXXW

You'll have to seal it with a waterproof mat finish after printing before application.
Christopher Couper

Anybody out there have the interest, skill, app and the will to produce the completely accurate artwork needed for this decal? My research suggests that the diameter of the large outer circle is 95 mm. The font, circles, horizontal lines and the diamonds are white. The rest is black, probably matte rather than gloss, unless someone can confirm otherwise. The diameter of the large outer circle is 95 mm. I'll happily pay for the printing and send you some decals to (partially) compensate you for your time. Contact me at pjbm at bigpond dot com if you can help. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Just received this from a local manufacturer of decals. The two alterations are making the diamonds white instead of black and of eliminating the thickened area at about 8 o'clock on the inner circle. A reasonable quote of $66 for the vector file and a surprisingly faithful reproduction. I'll have the decals printed here in Sydney. If interested in a decal or two let me know. I'll pass them on at cost. Cheers
Peter TD 5801

P Hehir

Picked up the decals today. They look great. Stuck one on the molded circle on the front of the rubber case battery and it fits perfectly. If anyone wants one email me. $5 AUD plus postage. Cheers
Peter TD 5801

P Hehir

Excellent work. Well done.
Dave H
Dave Hill

In the shop manual, it shows the battery with the vertical lucas on the left. It says this is an early battery.

Has anyone identified what a late 50 car would have?

I know we have a company in the US that is making a reproduction lucas battery, but it does not look like either of the batteries in the discussion.

http://www.antiqueautobattery.com/batteries.html

Bruce Cunha

The company I listed is apparently either having problems due to health or is no longer in business.

Anyone know of any other companies that make a reproduction lucas?

Peter. Any potential the company that made yours might produce these for sale so we could get them in the US?
Bruce Cunha

Probably not Bruce as I paid for the artwork so any subsequent sales from the printer would have to be through me. The $5 unit cost is so I may recover some of the art and printing costs. Of course anyone in the States could put in the time, do the legwork and produce them independently. The decals I had made are specifically for one of the LUCAS batteries that were being produced in the late forties that sported a circular flat section on the front face. Lonnie' post showed a good illustration. The round decal is designed for use on one of these original rubber cased LUCAS batteries, not for those that had a vertical LUCAS strip. I'm happy to send these decals to the States. Postage would be $3 AUD, making $8 AUD in total. Cheap at twice the price! Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Bruce,

I called and placed an order about a week ago. When did you find out they are out of business?

Frank

TF 1414
Frank Cronin

Frank. Could be they got things worked out. Their facebook page indicated there was a problem. Last post was in May. So it could be they got things going again.

Search facebook for antique auto battery
Bruce Cunha

Hi Bruce,

I called yesterday to find out the status of my order which should be completed and sent out to me the end of next week.

When I spoke to the girl I asked if there were any issues that happened in the past because of the conflicting information as we have here.

So yes, about two months ago the owner did have health problems or passed away. A person within the company who worked there for many years did purchase the company but due to legal difficulties the website, phone, and business was down and could not be used until these legal matters were resolved. The person's name is Jim and the business name will have be changed. I'm having memory loss at the moment the name of the new company. I think it's Jim's Vintage Battery. I could be wrong but in any case when the NEW website is finished, when someone types in Antique Battery it will re-direct to the new website. Pretty much the same people will be there and products.

So good news for the classic car community.

Frank
TF1414
Frank Cronin

Frank what was it that you ordered? I've been trying for years to get my hands on an original LUCAS battery cap so that I could reproduce it, but I've had ZERO success! Maybe with the new management there just might be some hope on this front. Of course if anyone in the States has such a cap and would be prepared to assist in seeing these made available then you get my vote to replace the current US president :-) Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter,

I ordered a G27 L/B battery. Logo is incorrect being horizontal and white and should be instead vertical, unpainted, and to the left. Close enough though to a period replacement Lucas battery years after the original factory.

Frank
TF 1414
Frank Cronin

Frank will this have the LUCAS caps? Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

A recent inquiry saw a couple of these decals on their way across to New Zealand. I still have quite a few left if anyone is interested. $5 AU plus postage, which with the current exchange rate, is really cheap. They look great and can be used to dress up a modern battery or mocked up case. Email me at pjbm at bigpond dot com if interested. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Still desperate to get my hands on an original or repro LUCAS battery cap. Anyone anywhere have one that I could use to make a casting from? This would really complete my late 40's rubber cased battery. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

This thread was discussed between 27/07/2018 and 04/12/2018

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