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MG TD TF 1500 - MG TD Dashboard Template completed

http://www.lhdigest.com/mg/dashboard6.pdf

If you click the link above and let it load (it's a large file, 12mb in size), you should be able to open a multiple page document in PDF format containing a digitized template of a MGTD dashboard. This should open with most browsers, or you can download it and open it with Adobe Acrobat.
The template is broken into six pages, with registration bullets on every page so you should be able to exactly match them all together.
If anybody prefers, I will create a single page document which you can take to a printer and have them output as a single page...
Additionally, a few notes:
1) the black dots are for the dashboard screws and are 4.5mm in size.
2) the grey dots are for the panel screws and are 5mm in size
3) there are two outer lines for the dash, corresponding to the larger outline at the front and the narrower outline at the rear
4) the curved section below the tachometer dial is to be routed out behind the dash
5) While we've tried hard to be as accurate as possible, remember this has been manually traced off of one dash, put on multiple sheets of graph paper, scanned, reassembled and digitized. We really don't know how accurate this is, so please just use it for reference purposes.
Anyone using this template is welcome to contact me at geoffreybaker@cox.net with suggestions for improvements or if you find errors.
My thanks to mog, who did all the tracing and measuring.
I hope this is of help to other MG enthusiasts and I welcome any suggestions! This is my way of saying thank you to all of you, for your many helpful suggestions and encouragements as I work on my own 51 TD, Lily Christine IV.
Geoffrey M Baker

A small image of it:

Geoffrey M Baker

Wow Thanks Geoff!!! A great starting point for all of us with TDs with long gone originals. Yes we'll "tweak" as per factory but a great start.
Randy
R Biallas

For anyone wishing to take this pdf file to a printer service and have them output a single page on a large plotter, this file should work:

http://www.lhdigest.com/mg/dashboard5.pdf
Geoffrey M Baker

Is anyone else having problems getting Geoff's links to download? I have let it go for several hours on a high speed server and it never downloaded. Cheers - Dave
DW DuBois

Dave,
I had no problem with the download-it works fine.

Geoff,
Congrats-nice work!!

Regards
Declan
D Burns

Well done Geoff,

I will add some pics to show some detail to the thread for future ref when I get a chance.

now get back to your car.
mog

Works for me. Even though I don't "presently" own a TD, never say never. Grin. Thanks for your efforts Geoffery, much appreciated. PJ
Paul161

OK, I promise I'll get back to working on the car.
However, I made a couple of changes to the file. I redid the screw holes using precise xy axis data (which moves a few of them slightly) and I added in the text information on the positioning so people can check against mogs original dimensions. Lastly I incorporated a center line and xy axis bullet so you have good reference points for measurements.
The new files have the same names, just overwritten, so just redownload the files.
Geoffrey M Baker

Finally got the links to download for me. Thank you for doing all that work to make up the drawings and for sharing them with us Geoff. Cheers - Dave
DW DuBois

Just uploaded the latest version. Added a 5cm grid and center axes for speedo, tach and glovebox.
Geoffrey M Baker

Nice work Geoff. This will be useful. Peter
Peter Pope

I would very much like to get some feedback from someone who has their dash out of their car. Anyone willing to print out and assemble the template and then compare that to the real deal... it would greatly help in pinpointing any issues.
While I think the screw holes and gauge holes are probably pretty accurate, the entire outline of the dash was derived from tracings on separate sheets of paper which were scanned and then assembled. This may have introduced some discrepancies I would like to clean up before anyone actually cuts some expensive wood...
Thanks for the help!
You can contact me at geoffreybaker@cox.net at any time.
Geoffrey M Baker

Geoff, that's quite a document. I'm very impressed. I downloaded it this morning and began doing what you're asking for. You may recall that I have the OEM fascia panel from Lazarus (my '52 TD). First thing that hit me was to get the print settings right for Adobe in order to get the correct scale for the printouts. Next thing that I ran into was a realization that the scale is in centimeters. For the sake of dummies like me it might be worthwhile adding such a note. I found that setting the Adobe print parameters to a custom scale of 100% allowed me to get over-lappable images on 8.5x11 paper.

Would have been nice to have my old light table, but I left it in my lab 15 years ago. A metric scale allowed me to overlap the six pages and tape them together. I took the package to a workbench along with the OEM fascia panel and tried to fit them. What I've seen so far is that it's a very close fit. I'll try to better identify the questionable areas and get back to you. I'm trying to picture myself as someone with a big buck investment in an exotic piece of wood that I'm about to cut up. Bud
Bud Krueger

Thanks Bud, that's exactly what I need... the more accuracy the better.
Thanks and keep me informed.
Geoffrey M Baker

You can buy transparent paper (for old style overhead projectors) that will work with inkjet papers. That way you can easily align the bullets without a light table. Might be a good investment for someone doing this project. Also, the plastic transparency paper is less prone to stretch...
Geoffrey M Baker

Dont use the rubbish pdf reader that comes with a windows 10 browser, use proper adobe else you wont be able to print more than one page. set to 100% as mentioned. I have printed it out and will compare Geoff, 1st impression is super, its .5 cm too tall approx, and the width is a couple of mm too wide - will know more tom, a quick measure of the middle height, is 18.2 mm on the dash itself, drawing prints out to 18.7, all the cutouts look ace., maybe it was my poor diagram.
mog

Discovered an unopened pack of HP Transparency Film left from a long time ago. I'll try some tomorrow. I'm using Adobe Acrobat Reader DC with Win7 Pro. I'll let you know what I see. Bud
Bud Krueger

I printed a set of drawings onto transparency stock. Made it much easier to overlay them. Spent about an hour trying to get images of the correlation between the drawings and my OEM fascia. Just stopped for a fresh cup of coffee. Parallax and reflections on the transparencies were driving me batty. I can give you a number of qualitative observations while I figure out how to get quantitative data.

In general the drawings are very close. The discrepancies seem to be on the side of the user. By that I mean that someone cutting their stock to the outline of the drawing would have a slightly too large fascia board that would need to be trimmed. That's a lot better than having to add wood. It also appears that the openings for the meters, instrument panel and glovebox were not precisely located on the OEM fascias. The bottom edge of the drawing seems to be a very close match to the OEM fascia. Overlaying them leaves a top edge that is slightly tall (as mog saw). A problem with this is that it's the top edge that has to match up with the tub hardware. No one would notice variations in the bottom edge (except for the ends). I'll get back at it this afternoon, have some Christmas things to do. Bud
Bud Krueger

I don't expect to do much on this till after Christmas either, Bud.
What would be absolutely great would be if you and mog could take your drawings and make annotations and if necessary redraw outlines where they are off, and then mail them to me.
I could then simply match the original to the modifications, on a centimeter-by-centimeter basis.
The result should be as good as we could get...

I would recommend even on the final drawing that everyone cut their stock with a margin of error, on the plus side. Every car may have subtle variations, on both the outline and the screw holes. Better to start with something oversize and then trim it to shape...
And as a general rule, I would advise people to use the template to check their own cars first, make adjustments, and then cut the wood... anyone trying to just cut stock to this outline would be making a mistake. No two MGs are the same, ever!
Merry Christmas, all!
Geoffrey M Baker

Mog/Bud, can you tell me if the tach and speedo holes are the correct diameter?
Geoffrey M Baker

Yes. Your drawing shows 120 mm each. So does my OEM fascia. This fascia is from TD10855. early in the changeover to magnetic instruments. The holes were cut for chronometric and have the recesses for the shims.
The absolute location varies between mine and the values from the model (mog's?) by a few mm.

Bud
Bud Krueger

The drawing cutouts are for 120.565mm. I based it on the tracing because there was no actual data on diameter, just on the center axis, so I wasn't sure if it was correct. Good enough!
Geoffrey M Baker

Also, mog, can you tell me the depth the ellipse is routed out behind the dash for the tach? And if there are any other cutouts in the back?
I'll add this to the template.
Geoffrey M Baker

It's about 7.3mm on mine. Bud
Bud Krueger

Here's the view of the rear of the instrument cutouts. They have factory shims installed to mount the magnetic instruments. Same routing depth. Car is TD10855. Bud

Bud Krueger

Thanks Bud...
If when you've finished measuring out the rest of it, you could somehow mark out the approx. outline of the routing cuts in the rear, I'll include them on the drawing...
Geoffrey M Baker

I have a couple of questions for those who are looking at actual dashes:
1: It looks to me like panel holes 2&4 and 1&5 should be mirror images, so the dimensions should match. 2&4 are exact matches but 1&5 are not (1 is 14.9mm and the other is 15mm). Can we check these on the metal panel and see if they should match exactly?
2) Similarly, dash screw holes A&F and B&E and C&D should in a perfect world be mirror images but there are discrepancies there too. A is 50/6.8, F is 49.8/6.65, while B&E match on xaxis but are off on y (22.2 vs 22.3) and C&D similarly match on x but are 21.3/22.3 on y.
So can we verify that these should be mirror images? If they are not, then we can't just flip it to make a correct template for both RHD and LHD versions. If they SHOULD be mirror images, I need to know which hole needs to be corrected...
ALSO, the instrument panel cutout hole looks to me like it should move down a bit, it's too close to the top panel screw holes (2,3,4). How much should it move?
Hope I'm making myself clear... :)
Geoffrey M Baker

Goeff, it's not that simple. It would appear that there are only eight holes that truly align with those of my OEM fascia, the two lower, end ones, A & F and the six for the instrument panel. All others are different by some degree or another. On my fascia, holes A & F are 101.44 cm apart, holes B & E are 76.04 cm apart, holes C & D are 35.72 cm apart. The holes for the instrument panel screws overlay very closely when the drawing is aligned with the A&F holes of the fascia. The left edge of the drawing for the instrument cutout appears to be about 3 mm to the right. Bud
Bud Krueger

I made a jig to rout out the holes for the tacho etc and found the hole diameter needs to be 122.5mm for the gauge to be a nice snug fit.
I managed to download and print off the six pages of the template but when I tried to join them up they are of different scales and I cant get a full sheet. Not quite sure whats going wrong but it was done with windows 10 so maybe that's the problem. The quality is great so just hope I can sort the scale/print problem. Any ideas.
Nigel Fox
N Fox

Nigel, a couple of questions -- Are your tachometer and speedometer magnetic or chronometric? What program are you using to open/print the Adobe file? Bud
Bud Krueger

Use Adobe Acrobat (download it if need be) not your browser, and one way to be sure is to print one page at a time and look to make sure you specify 100% with each page. I'm betting yours was set to "scale to page" and as the artboards (pages) are not all the same size, your printer printed it out at different percentages.
Geoffrey M Baker

Geoffrey,

I printed out a copy of your dashboard drawing,traced it on the back for a right hand drive vehicle and it is extremely accurate and fits my dash to a tee.

Congratulations for a great professional job.

Thank you and have a very Merry and safe Christmas.

John...Sydney
John Walton

Geoff, I took the transparency copy and pinned it to the OEM dashboard with the six instrument panel holes aligned. The overall fit is excellent. The only discrepancies that I see Are:
1. Top curve is slightly (2-3mm) too high. (extra wood).
2. Instrument panel cutout - left edge shifted to right about 3 mm. (Again, extra wood.)
3. Tachometer ans speedometer are slightly (3-5 mm) to the right.

If the user trims the top edge to match the curve of his cowl the dashboard should be an excellent fit. I'm of the impression that there is no absolute location for the tachometer and speedometer. Mine and mog's are close, but a few millimeters would not be noticed. The cutout for the instruments would want to be trimmed to clear a loaded instrument panel.

Merry Christmas, Bud
Bud Krueger

Thanks all. One last thing, if anyone has an instrument panel lying around, could they check the fit of the six panel holes to the panel, rather than the dashboard. I want to make sure it's precise to the panel - the dashboard has some play, but if it's not exact to the panel there might be problems.
Geoffrey M Baker

Nigel the speedo & tacho cutouts need to be slightly larger to allow for the vinyl, unless you are going with a veneered dash. I had to trim mine prior to fitting the vinyl when I made my dash & subdash about a year ago. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

In the new year I will post an updated version with Buds changes and a couple of others. With any luck it will be accurate enough for general use. If that passes scrutiny I'll also post a reversed version for RHD owners.
Geoffrey M Baker

Prior to making mine I paid attention to the fit of the dash to the scuttle on dozens of cars. The gap seemed too narrow around the centre which caused an untidy fit of the piping. I was able to fix this using a jigsaw set with the blade angled to the base plate to ensure a uniform gap, from front to back, all the way along the top of the dash. On many cars the dash also sat well proud of the scuttle which again looked messy. The point being some tweaking will be necessary which involves fitting & removing the raw timber dash & sub dash a number of times. I made this easier by using countersunk brass machine screws with wingnuts on the subdash & polished stainless slot headed machine screws on the dash, as mine is an early TD.

Even though I had the originals to work from the task was a lot more work than I'd imagined. Kudos to you Geoff & I join the others in thanking you for your efforts, which will no doubt make fabricating a new dash so much easier. Pics show my dash & sub dash assembled on the bench to locate the position of the instrument lights & their cutouts (early TD). The pink material around the glovebox opening is body filler which allows for a quick repair, when the jigsaw refused to obey. Cheers
Peter TD 5801

P Hehir

Pic 2. The rear of the original dash is just visible in the foreground. The mini loom for the instrument lighting can just be seen at the top of the pic. The timber was painted with a waterproof membrane prior to installation. Cheers
Peter TD 5801

P Hehir

Back from the holidays with a cold :(
I hope to post an updated template in the next couple of days. Please, if anyone has any additional changes or suggestions of what to include, let me know!
Geoffrey M Baker

I have made the following changes:

Slightly modified panel screw holes to make them symmetric.

Moved tach and speedo 2mm to left as per Bud's measurements
Moved (stretched would be more accurate) left side of instrument panel cutout 3mm to left as per Bud's measurements

Reduced line width from 2 to 1 point for everything but the outer dash edge, this should make for more accurate tracing and measurement for users

Converted dash back outline and tachometer ellipse routing lines to dashes to make the drawing clearer

Updated text info and instructions

I have uploaded the files (tiled an non-tiled) to the links listed at the top of this thread.

I decided against making a reverse image drawing for RHD vehicles; all that is necessary is to use transparency sheets in your inkjet and you will have a clear drawing that you can simply flip over and use.

Please, keep up the suggestions and input!

I would like the following: if someone (Bud? :) ) can trace the routing pattern in the back behind the speedo and tach and mail me the drawing, I will incorporate that into the template.
Geoffrey M Baker

Also, Bud, your dash includes an additional hole for a 2 1/16 gauge. If you sent me the info for that (center data and diameter) I could incorporate that for users wishing to add an aftermarket gauge in...

Other thoughts:
I know that turn signals were not original to the early TDs but came in pretty quickly. I don't know what constitutes "correct" here but would like to add in marks where people can attach the turn signal to the dash in the most "correct" location.
If anyone has other "nifty" modifications I would be willing to look at adding that info in if it's something people want.

Again, thanks all!
Geoffrey M Baker

Hi Geoff, just back from delivering a SnowBird's car to Florida SO i'm a bit behind on the BBS. I suspect that the additional routing around the Speedometer and Tachometer gauge holes are to accommodate magnetic gauges in a dash previously routed for magnetic ones. That would be the need for the added, screwed in place, shims. I can send you a tracing, but I'm not sure of the necessity. The addition gauge hole in the dash is the reason why it didn't stay with the car. I opted to install a combo gauge. I'll need your mailing address for the tracing. Bud
Bud Krueger

Thanks Bud. I've emailed you with my address.
I agree, probably no necessity to add the routing info tho if it is a conversion. Same with the additional hole, although I have no problem including ALL info including aftermarket stuff, so long as people understand it's optional...
Geoffrey M Baker

I'll keep people posted with updates, but I think we're pretty close to done with this project. If anyone has any further updates or suggestions, please email them to me.
I will leave these files on the existing server as long as I can, but if anybody wishes to "mirror" them by copying them and putting them on their own servers, please do so. I would hate to get run over by a truck and have the server crash and have the files disappear forever. I'd hate the first part the most though :)
Anybody who wishes to post a copy of these files to their own server, please go ahead and do so - the more the merrier, and the better for all. No attribution needed, blah blah, public domain, free to reprint for personal use.
If you do put one up on your own site or server, just let me know so I can send you information on updates.
Geoffrey M Baker

I got your template Bud and will look at incorporating the info (as optional) for those who want to change from chronometric to magnetic or viceversa.
Thanks!
Geoffrey M Baker

Geoff,

What is the latest file name and date and could you please add a link at the end of this thread for clarity.

Thanks,
Jim
James Neel

Jim the file names are the same the latest date would be four or five days ago. The links are the same.
Good point, though, I'll start posting revision files with dates in them so people know which are the most current.

Two files: one in pages
http://www.lhdigest.com/mg/dashboard6.pdf

which can be assembled after printing

and one meant for a plotter which is a single page

http://www.lhdigest.com/mg/dashboard5.pdf
Geoffrey M Baker

Thank you Geoff.

Jim
James Neel

This thread was discussed between 16/12/2015 and 12/01/2016

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