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MG TD TF 1500 - MGTD 2 bow side curtain measurements

Good day to all,
My TD restoration is still in the early phases, but I know that my side curtain frames are poor quality, non original. The basic question that I have is: Are the measurements in the Moss Motors instructions accurate for the 2 bow top? I have found a set, but a few of the measurements are off slightly. For example, the length (front to back) of the front frame appears to be 5/16" short. The leading-top edge of the rear frame is slightly rounded(but not as much as the 3 bow), unlike the Moss pictures. However, the other measurement seem to match. I looked in the archive, but didn't find clarity on this point.
What do you think?
Jim
JV Smith

As you've not had a reply Jim I may be able to assist. Can you email me at pjbm (at) bigpond (dot) com and I can send you some pics showing dimensions I've taken from of a pair of original front frames from a two bow TD. There are some errors in the Moss instructions. A rewrite was promised in 2006 from memory but I understand that hasn't happened. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Jim, here's a couple of images that may be of help.

Jud




J K Chapin

... And another one. Jud

ps: This image is greatly reduced. If you can't read it let me know and I can email you the full sized image.

J K Chapin

Hi Jim,

This is the rear frame from my car before new side curtains. My advice is to replace the top (hood) and side curtains at the same time. The vertical height of the hood frame is critical for both the fit of the hood and the fit between the hood and the side curtains. I think it is better to do the side curtains first, and then fit the hood. I believe that vertical dimension is wrong in the Moss instructions. I was very happy with the Robbins product. It is also nice to get these frames powder coated.

Jim Barry


J Barry

The two frames I made with a jig using an original pair of two bow front frames as the templates. The tape is both in imperial and metric. Cheers
Peter TD 5801




P Hehir

This is one of the jigs. Cheers
Peter TD 5801

P Hehir

Jim Barry are you able to post a pic or two of your car with the hood and side curtains fitted? I'm keen to see the quality of the Robbins product. The edging detail from some suppliers is incorrect, capped not folded, in the way they were originally sewn. This is how Collingburn used to make them. The key to a great fit is in getting the front and rear frames perfectly aligned. The Moss kit that I purchased makes this impossible because the stitching doesn't align with the original frames (which means the chrome strips are out of whack); and they won't refund new, unused, still in their packaging side curtains, even when presented with evidence of the problem. Caveat emptor. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Hi Peter,

A couple of photos are attached. It looks like the edging is capped, not folded. If that is the level of originality you need, Robbins is probably not for you. Note as well the large rear window, which I find very useful. I'm happy with the fit of the top, not so much with the side curtains. However, I don't really intend to use them. The main difficulty here is that the hood is about 3/4 inch or so high, so the curtains don't fit properly into their hood pocket. That is why I advise doing the side curtains first in order to set the hood height. There is some adjustment available by bending pieces and such but it is best to get it as close as possible. I think the Robbins quality is fine; any fitting problems were my doing; they also sat around for a few years and got a little folded up.

Note that I have an archive post wondering why the top would not fit. That turned out be due to the wrong vertical hood height in the Moss instructions (and others). That dimension also makes a lot of difference in the length of material available to stretch over the frame.

Jim





J Barry

Another shot showing the edging and stitching as much as possible.

J Barry

Hi Jim. Thanks for sharing. I doubt anyone these days are bothering to make accurate repros. The hood and side curtains really make the look of the car and are so difficult to get right; and simply impossible if you begin with faulty items, such as the ones I'd purchased from Moss. Apart from the showroom Ivory TD on the back page of the Driver's Handbook, the best result I've ever seen was on Rob Grantham's TF.

I went looking for a Moss forum to see what others had to say and was shocked at what their own employees said about the company, the culture and the management. After reading their comments I'm now not surprised that I never received the promised investigation and reply from the Moss CEO Glen Adams after my 3 am Sydney time phone call to him in 2014. replyhttps://www.glassdoor.com.au/Reviews/Moss-Motors-Reviews-E268070.htm?countryRedirect=true Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Reviewers on Glass Door or other sites tend to come from the disgruntled rather than the happy camper.

For that very reason I tend to go out of my way to review a service, good or bad. Just the other day I phoned a trucking company that had delivered bathroom fixtures for a project. I wanted to praise the driver for his efforts to carefully handle the boxes and place them ay my front door.

I have personally used Moss Motors products since 1995, have only had a couple of issues. One an ignition condenser and one a flasher unit. I never bitched about either, got another and moved on with my life.

I buy extensively from Abingdon Spares, LBCARco (Moss distributor), Brown and Gammon and Burlen Fuel Systems. I have not reviewed any of them although I did thank Ed Cooke of ASL when I met him at Kimber Fest.

I have a friend with a TD, MGA, 2 x MGBs who buys exclusively from LBCARco, he is very happy from what I hear him say.

Moss is a large company that has been in business a long time somewhat successfully it appears. I did visit the Goleta, CA site once in the 90s. I found the guys I dealt with to be friendly, helpful and courteous. This was probably before Glassdoor.

I prefer dealing with ASL these days as shipping by USPS takes 2-3 days. This is mainly due to proximity I guess. To be fair I have only ordered there once since Covid times but there is an order sitting in my cart right now.

I purchase a lot of IT industry bits, reviews tend to be long and detailed from nerds and short and curt from folks who had an issue with instructions.

Maybe try B&G in the UK, I used them exclusively for an MGB rebuild in the 80s, never had an issue.

Of course, caveat emptor, but sometimes you attract more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.

Just my 2c worth.

A happy shopper.
P G Gilvarry

Thanks for all of the comments and pictures.
I appreciate Moss supporting our cars for so many years, but I have heard too many miscellaneous fit issues to be completely confident of their current processes. I have already had a problem with top and bottom link bushings and link tubes that I bought from them and had to send back. They had a reason for the poor fit, but I Just didn't buy it. I ended up buying bushings from Abingdon and having a shop "clean up" my original tubes and install the bushings to factory tolerances.
Thanks Peter for the email and all of the pictures posted here. Also thanks to Jud and Jim for all of the information.
Jim, I agree, I am powder coating as many parts as I can. Speaking of that, weren't the original frames tan, or am I thinking of the hood frame? Mine are black and I noticed yours are too.
Jim
JV Smith


Jim,

My father bought our car in 1967, and both frames and hood were black at that time. That's all I can offer on that subject. I'm not a fan of Moss-bashing. My experiences with them have been mostly good, and I'm very glad they are around.

Jim Barry
J Barry

This thread was discussed between 14/09/2020 and 23/09/2020

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