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MG TD TF 1500 - Mr. MG – A Book Review



I’ve just finished reading “Mr. MG,” a biography of John William Yates Thornley O.B.E., employee, and ultimately Director and General Manager of the MG Car Company from 1931 through 1969. (Magna Press, 2003) Although this is a biography written by John’s son about John, there is a great deal that is of interest to MG enthusiasts. Lots of pictures and, of greater interest, lots of inter-company correspondence.

A friend in my club picked up the book will touring Abingdon and kindly loaned if to me. I don’t know if the book is available at retail but, according to the internet, one can
“Buy the Book Directly from the Author
Book: $25.95 US
Shipping
Domestic: $2.70
International: $4.00
By check, send with your name and address to:
Peter Thornley
150 Laurel Branch Court
Roswell, GA 30075
pthornely@netzero.com

I have never met Peter Thornley and I have no financial interest in the book but I did enjoy it and I learned some things I didn’t know.

Jud


J. K. Chapin

I'm sure Mr Thornley senior would have had the title read 'Mr M.G.' as opposed to 'Mr MG.' Cecil was very keen to see the dots used whenever the subject of his cars was mentioned. Given his long association with M.G., I'm confident that this is something that Mr Thornley senior would also have had equally strong feelings about. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Indeed. The only time you leave the dots out is when it's inside the octagon.
Steve Simmons

It’s interesting, but personally I don’t see it makes any difference with or without the dots. If Thornley was pedantic about it, we don’t have to be as well.
Dave H
Dave Hill

I can add a bit of review to Jud's comments above. This is a thinnish book, part biography of the author's father with details of their family life, and part description of his father's evolving role at MG. The latter is the interesting part, since Thornley played such an important role in many aspects of the production of MG cars. His story of the late years highlights Thornley senior's anger and frustration at the breaking up of MG, and the internacine management of MG, Nuffield and BMC.

There are interesting details buried deep, but it's not a critical book to have in an MG collection. For instance, there are some not-otherwise-reproduced images of TDs being prepared for shipment to the US, but the pictures are so badly reproduced that it is hard to 'read' them with enough accuracy to be positive of the details they show.

Copies of the book are on Amazon in the $10 range.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

Tom nailed it but I sorta enjoyed the book anyway. Jud
J. K. Chapin

Peter, the author, is a personal friend of mine, so I know that he no longer lives in Roswell, GA.
If you email me (lew (at) roundaboutmanor (dot) com), I will give you his email address where you can contact him directly.

But doesn't BritBooks stock the book? http://britbooks.stores.yahoo.net/mrmgbiofjoth.html
Lew Palmer

Thanks Lew, but what's done is done. Maybe he can correct the error on the second reprinting if there is the need for one.

Dave, the dots have been an issue for at least 90 years. Cecil Kimber addressed a meeting of the RAC in the early thirties where he stressed the importance of the dots and also put to bed the fallacious rumour that M.G. stood for Morris Garages. There is plenty in the archive on this. I've also researched and written a couple of articles on both topics because it is a commonly misunderstood part of our marque's history. Unfortunately the minutes of that meeting are no longer in the RAC archive but we do have the evidence of Jonathan Daniel who was there and was also an acquaintance of Cecil's. It isn't a question of pedantry. It's a bit like bolting a V8 into a TD for mine. Even the M.G. Car Club in England were guilty of omitting the dots when a new sign was erected late last century. It took a while but the error was eventually corrected. Cheers
Peter M.G. TD 5801
P Hehir

Just dug out the following quotes from Mr Daniel on the significance of the dots...

'As to the famed dots, my friend M.E.L. Gosling – a motorcyclist, having been informed the M. & G. were not shortened, queried the use of the dots; Mr. Kimber told us it was simply a matter of design – more visually attractive, and no other reason. It was confusing then, as now, however, and no-one would dare to take on the master. We later studied the factory literature of the time, and agreed – he was right! ‘That which Mr. Kimber joined together, let no editor or tired typesetter put asunder.’ If it was good enough for the boss of M.G. it should be good enough for the rest of us.'

Jonathon Daniel
Postbag
MG Enthusiast magazine 1992


And this from another letter...

‘You are not alone in your ignorance of these important points: witness the new signs outside the M.G. Car Club premises in Abingdon – no dots – someone has slipped up, and they really should know better. This is not the first time the club has abandoned its history – only since the arrival of previous magazine editors, was the exclamation mark following ‘Safety Fast!’ returned to its rightful place; again this is an important piece of M.G. history and is there for a reason.

The excellent centrespread in your September 1991 issue is how it should be done – or are these just dots in front of my ancient eyes? You can do it when you try! Today’s printing technology can easily be programmed to include the dots in M.G. and exclude them from MGB etc., it is simple, if you care enough.'


'May this octogenarian offer some advice to all the young bloods? Do not ignore your marque’s heritage - that is what made it great. If required, I will gladly dip into my pension to fund glucose tablets for your typesetter, and blobs of paint for the M.G. Car Club signs, along with a copy of "M.G. by McComb", wherein on each page, you will see how the letters should be presented when not in the octagon.'


'Before I go chasing the other Brooklands lads, upstairs – where engines do not break, and fuel is free – do me and Mr. Kimber’s memory a favour: remember that the mists of time have a habit of obscuring the facts, so shun the self-proclaimed experts, become a purist and stand out from the crowd and proudly state – ‘M.G. stands for itself – not Morris Garages, and the dots are there as a matter of design only.’

Jonathon Daniel
Postbag
MG Enthusiast magazine 1992

Cheers
Peter M.G. TD 5801
P Hehir

Not only dots, but if you look at the sign on the side of the office block in the famous picture of the M-types coming out of Cemetery Road, you will see that the M and the G are connected together at the bottom of the letters. So what does that say about the correctness of the dots?
Lew Palmer

Lew maybe the following provides the answer to your query? There is no doubt that the earliest M.G.'s were made in the premises of William Morris. This from the editor of M.G. Nuts dot com.

'The letters for M.G. were chosen as a tribute to William Morris and his company, Morris Garages. Cecil Kimber, while working for Mr. Morris in the 1920’s, began building custom cars from Morris chassis. The cars needed a name since they were not a Morris offering, but rather a custom job. Mr. Kimber named them M.G. as a tribute to his employer. The cars were quite successful and eventually Cecil branched off and started building his own line of cars. He officially named this new entity "The M.G. Car Company". The company was financed and therefore owned by Mr. Morris, with Kimber acting as its general manager.

It is certainly possible that in the very beginning while still working at Morris Motors, Cecil chose the letters "M.G." as an abbreviation for Morris Garages. However, if that was the case then he very quickly changed his mind! After all, if M.G. really stood for Morris Garages then how could two companies exist with the same name at the same time?

Other evidence for this argument is on the vehicle maker’s plate which always state the full name of the company who built it. On every M.G. made, it states "The M.G. Car Company", never "The Morris Garages Car Company". Even looking back to the earliest days of M.G., one cannot find Morris Garages listed on any company letterhead or even in the very first M.G. Magazine of 1933.'

Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

This thread was discussed on 28/01/2018

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