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MG TD TF 1500 - New timing chain

Just a note to anyone installing a new timing chain... the one I got from Moss had two nice shiny links. Only problem is, they are useless... they are not the correct number of links apart as per our manuals.
I did a manual count and put one shiny link on the cam sprocket mark and then lined the crank sprocket mark up, to a regular link, with thirteen links between the two on the tensioner side, fifteen links away on the other side.
I've seen this mentioned before that new timing chains weren't properly marked, I just didn't realized they were CONFUSINGLY marked as they indeed come with two silver links... just the wrong distance apart.
Geoffrey M Baker

Geoff did you raise this with Moss? I'd love to hear what their response was.. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

No, having heard that modern chains didn't arrive marked like the old chains, I didn't expect to find two silver links at all. So I don't think it's a product flaw...
Geoffrey M Baker

Yours doesn't seem to be designed for the XPAG/XPEG T series block & so if used without checking the 13/15 setup the timing would be way off. My new chain (not from Moss) had no marked links so I used whiteout on two links the correct distance apart as an aid to installation. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

My timing chain from Edney had the two silver links correctly placed. The chain was made in India.
Dave H
Dave Hill

The moral of the story is... COUNT THE LINKS"!
Geoffrey M Baker

Geoff, how many links are on the Moss chain? How many links are between the shiny links (not counting the shiny ones)? Bud
Bud Krueger

Bud I am in Seattle now so I can't check to make sure but I think there were 14 links between the two silver links
Geoffrey M Baker

Hi Guys,

I have had a bad experience with a timing chain so I thought I should share it to help save someone else from the issues I had.

Don't worry if a chain has shiny links or not .... just count the links as suggested. The important thing is to buy a GOOD QUALITY CHAIN and don't be afraid to pay a bit more for it.

I once bought a chain and was surprised at how cheap it was. That chain soon spat a couple of bits of roller off. (They were picked up on my magnetic sump plug). A few years later, a couple of days before a big race meeting, I changed the oil and found the link clip, cracked, on the sump plug. Luckily, the link had otherwise stayed intact (probably due to some wear on the pins) so I fitted another clip.

Now I will only buy a chain if I know it is GOOD QUALITY and is not too cheap. That might mean it has a brand name stamped in each link or comes in a sealed box with a reputable maker on the label. (Made in Germany, U.K. or U.S.A. should be OK but NOT mad in ***** etc.) Do the Moss chains come in a Moss box or are they in a reputable brand box?

Bob Schapel
R L Schapel

Bob that sounds like great advice! I too was surprised at how inexpensive my chain was, which I purchased from a supplier here in Sydney. I'm pretty sure though it was made in India. Yet to turn the engine over but you've convinced me to now remove it & throw the new chain in the bin! Can someone please advise me of the name of a maker of a quality chain & a supplier (OTHER than Moss)? Given Bob's warning & the damage that a broken chain can cause, this is one area that I'm now not prepared to compromise on. Forewarned is forearmed! Thanks Bob. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Seems that the XPAG timing chain has a total of 30 links. That's 13 between marked links going one way and 15 going the other way. Looks as if Geoff's has the two silver links with 14 links between them going either way. It would appear that somebody was off by one link in installing the silver links. Let's see what Geoff finds when he counts them. Bud
Bud Krueger

Geoff has 30 links, 15 plus 13 plus 2. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

I'm pretty sure it was 14, Bud, which seems logical. I was very careful to make sure that I counted 13 when installing, between links on the tensioner side. I checked that 3 times before I closed it up. So I know that I got it right. Now how much distance was actually between the silver chains, that's another matter, I recall thinking it was one more than it should be - or 14 links.
As the timing cover is back on, I don't plan on checking it again unless the cover leaks when I put the oil in!.
Geoffrey M Baker


I have recent experience with 2 brands of timing chain while assembling my td engines. The first is the Beck/Arnley 024-0259. It has shinny links showing on one side but not the other. They are spaced equal distance on the chain. Not correct for MGTD.

The second chain is Melling 3DR60 which has no shinny links marked at all and says made in India on the box. The Melling chain has a note in the box that says the chain may not have the correct marks.

I would evaluate the quality of both chains as acceptable but not the best I've seen from past experience years ago. There are no snap links in either chain brand which is good because snap links have been known to wear and break apart.

I also had one very old NOS chain I used in one of my engines that was correct with shinny links in the right place, but I have no idea where or when it was made because there was no packaging. Its quality looked good. I say this just to point out that there may be some correct older NOS chains still out there.

Finally, an interesting point is that Melling lists their chain application as also fitting some Toyota engines, and this is probably why the chains are not marked with shinny links for our TD specific application.
Richard Cameron

You're right Peter : 13 + 15 +2 = 30, and the same holds true for 14 + 14 + 2 = 30. So, Geoff, are you saying that you installed the mis-marked, but functional, chain?
Bud
Bud Krueger

Yes, Bud.
Geoffrey M Baker

Bob, see " Moss 'pre-stretched' timing chain " in the Archives. What a bunch of flack I got when I said that was thinking about it. Bud
Bud Krueger

Peter

Renolds chain was always the go to supplier for industrial application chains. Dont know if they can supply one to meet the XPAG requirements.
G Evans

I've just checked them out on the Net Graeme. Seems like quality gear. I'll call them on Monday to see if they can provide one for the XPAG. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Just opened my new timing chain from Moss today. All the links are silver colored so it is easy to mark two links with a marker pen. It does have the correct number of links.
F. Driver

Renold can't assist Graeme as they don't supply automotive chains. When asked why they weren't suitable the salesman said they'd sold one for a Maserati & the engine blew! The search continues. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Heritage here in Sydney sell chains but the brand name is removed from the box prior to stocking. They can't or won't tell me who the manufacturer is. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Iwis chains (made in Germany) are available at "Precision International" engine parts wholesaler. They are at Mais St. Brompton, South Australia ph. 1300364350, but I would guess this is just a branch of a bigger business interstate and overseas. Being wholesalers they don't have counter service and not many people seem to know about them but they seem happy to deal with people who phone or drop in. Order carefully ... They also had cheap ******* chains available!

Maybe the Moss chains are Iwis? MG Lavern's posting on the Archives thread "Moss pre-stretched timing chain" refers to Moss notes which mention the benefits of Iwis. (Thanks Bud for referring me to that.)

Interesting if Reynolds have left the field. I thought they used to be the standard supplier to many. I believe the Richard is right in that the XPAG chain is the same as a Toyota. I must find out which model Toyota. I am sure genuine Toyota parts would be good quality.

Bob Schapel
R L Schapel

Happy to confirm Bob's report on the Iwis German chains. David from Precision International confirms a shipment is expected in late October & at current exchange rates is about $52 AUD. He also supplies the Asian version for $15. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Moss do have the IWIS chain-see part 433-581
http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=110658
Regards
Declan
D Burns

I don't remember if this has been brought up before.
WSM fig A-16 shows an incorrect chain, 19 and 15 links, quite confusing.
Ray TF 2884
Ray Lee

This thread was discussed between 02/09/2015 and 08/09/2015

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