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MG TD TF 1500 - oilpick up refusal

I am helping a friend with a Y Type after an engine rebuild.
I have done this dozens of times so filled the filter and pump body with oil, then spun up plugs out, no oil pick up.
Remove oil pipe banjo bolt fill pump and turn the engine over backwards, the oil stays in pump and does not go back to the sump as usual.Next step is to air pressurise the sump while spinning the motor, still no oil flow.
The owner says there is no chance he blocked the sump/block oilway with compound.
The next step is sump removal to check then if OK jack engine and remove the pump.
Any suggestions as I am stumped?
Ray TF 2884
Ray Lee raybar2(at) tiscalidotcodotuk

I just re-read your post and see you've already applied the below procedure. Sum Ting Wong.

Here's a trick I've used on hydraulic systems, my MG and others on the site reported worked for them:

Loosely stuff some paper towels in the breather pipe and apply a little air pressure through the dipstick pipe while cranking with the spark plugs out. It takes surprisingly little pressure to lift the oil in the sump up to the pump. The loosely packed breather tube will act as a relief valve if you overdo it. It works quite fast.

Jim
JE Carroll

I'd recommend removing the relief valve assembly and packing the cavity with vasoline and put the assembly back on the pump. It worked for me when the wheel spin trick did not.
MG LaVerne

Hi LaVerne,
that was done originally, the puzzling thing is that air pressure does not fill the pump?
Ray
Ray Lee raybar2(at) tiscalidotcodotuk

Has the pick-up tube fractured from its mounting in the sump?

I have had that happen once, a long time ago!
Ian Bowers

Could the assembler put the sump gasket on reversed? Seems a blockage would be the only thing preventing oil from being sucked in when rotating backwards. Someone in the area had the same deal years ago and it was a blob of sealer blocking the pickup. George
George Butz

Sounds like time to pull the sump. Just a little air pressure will raise the column of oil quite a way. It seems there must be a blockage of some sort.
JE Carroll

Because no air comes up the suction side of the pump I am sure that there is a blockage. If it was my car the sump would be off in a flash. I hope to convince him that is what to do.
The sump gasket can only go one way as the two sides are a different shape.
I had around 5psi air pressure which will push oil up 10 foot ( 1 atmos= 14.7psi or 30 foot water gauge).
I would not go any higher as it has a rear lip seal which I did not want to turn inside out.
I will come back when it is resolved.
Ray TF 2884
Ray Lee raybar2(at) tiscalidotcodotuk

Agree with George...gasket on wrong blocking hole from pick-up to pump.
Gene Gillam

As mentioned elsewhere, the pick-up assembly could have a crack in the pipe, or possibly in a braized joint, or perhaps the gasket where it bolts to the inside of the sump did not have a hole in it.
R A WILSON

50 psi at cold tickover.
RA His oil pickup to sump gasket did not have a hole in it.
Happy owner now.
Ray TF 2884
Ray Lee raybar2(at) tiscalidotcodotuk

This problem had made me check everything in the WSM.I had not realised how many types of XPAG oil pump there were.
#1 oil outlet banjo on the pump body.
#2 oil outlet banjo on the end cap.
#3 integral filter no prime plug.
#4 integral filter with prime plug.

I also realised that if you fill type #2 and #4 via the cap hole then depress the relief ball down while turning the engine on the handle then the pump is purged and primed.
May be teaching old dogs new tricks but it has taken me 40+ years to twig it.
Ray TF 2884
Ray Lee raybar2(at) tiscalidotcodotuk

I just helped my friend re-assemble the Y Type, boy is it easier than the TF.
Floorboards in 4 pieces scarf jointed at the tunnel cover/ trans cover joint. The seats locked in keyhole slots, 1 minute to remove.
Ray TF 2884
Ray Lee raybar2(at) tiscalidotcodotuk

This thread was discussed between 10/03/2016 and 15/03/2016

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