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MG TD TF 1500 - Removing the crankshaft 51TD

I followed the WM instructions and removed the conrods, pistons and main bearings (having already removed the head, starter motor, timing chain, camshaft, oil pump). The book then says "Remove flywheel and crankshaft" but it does not seem to want to come off. The front end is completely free and can be moved up and down, but the flywheel does not want to come off. Am I doing something wrong?
I have the front of the crankshaft held in place with a bungee for safety, but am leery of trying to bang on the flywheel to dislodge it.
Suggestions, please.
Geoffrey M Baker

Hi Geoffrey, I'm not too sure where are working on this motor but it seems you are working from underneath, which would suggest the motor is still in the car?
Don TF 4887
D J Walker

Correct, Don.
Geoffrey M Baker

It won't come out as long as the transmission is still attached.
JRN JIM

OK, I presume the gearbox has been disconnected and moved back. I would make sure the crank is held up with the bearing caps on. The flywheel bolts, which should be wired, are then removed. The flywheel has dowels which located it and these can make it difficult to remove. Lever the flywheel a little and it should drop straight down, it won't pull out from the rear.
Don TF 4887
D J Walker

I would remove the flywheel while all the main caps are still on. Unscrew the four bolts and then tap with a rubber mallet, rotate the crank, tap again, etc. You just need to unstick the locating dowels. Be careful, when it comes loose it can drop down in a hurry. 20+ pounds and sharp edges.
Steve S

Geof,
First, I'd have to ask myself, if all this is really necessary. Why are you pullling the crank?
If your cylinders are clean, bearings look good, it was running fine without blue clouds following in behind or a knock like you have a woodpecker on board... why tear it apart any farther?
Maybe just concentrate on fitting new cam bearings in correctly, spring for rings/bearings/gaskets, then enjoy summer driving.
JIM
JRN JIM

At this point since the entire motor is disassembled, best to take the block out and have it boiled and cleaned. Especially with the bad cam bearing, all of the oilways need to be flushed, etc. No way you can clean with it in place, and/or correctly measure and assemble. Just my opinion. George
George Butz

I probably know why your doing it the way you are, as other pieces has to be removed to pull the engine from the car, but I agree with George, with all your doing, pulling the block, have it boiled out and re assemble it on the bench would be the safest way to go and you'd probably be a lot happier with the results. JMHO. PJ
Paul S Jennings

And you can have all the rust removed from the cooling system, and replace the core plugs with brass ones.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

So far, the crank looks great. However, the conrod bearings have scoring and gouge marks on 3 of the 4 pistons. They are standard not oversize bearings. The main bearings look good (no scoring or melting) but show some wear (just darker gray sections).

Not really wanting to have to spend a day tearing the floorboards out and draining and disconnecting the gearbox, I'd love to avoid taking out the block. But.... as main bearings have wear, the crank needs to be miked to see if I now need oversize bearings and a reground crank, right?. The camshaft issue means I really need to have the bearing tunnels miked as well. None of this can be done with the engine in the block.

So... guess what I'm doing today and tomorrow?

At this point (unless the block is just unusable) the worst case is I need to regrind the crank for oversize bearings, add oversize conrod bearings, possibly insert +60 pistons if there's enough wear in the cylinder walls (they look great, however) and regrind or replace the camshaft.
Geoffrey M Baker

I just took my gearbox out, and it was a quick and easy task, I didnt drain the box.
mog

Can someone point me to a thread which best explains how to do this with the fewest number of steps? If I don't have to remove half the interior, that would be nice :)
Geoffrey M Baker

Of course, almost everything you list requires the work of a competent machine shop. If you need to have the crank ground you also ought to have it, the rods, pistons, clutch cover and flywheel balanced for smoothness and longevity.

The rods will no doubt need to be overhauled (returned to round journals), and you MUST replace the pinch bolts and the rod bolts. Is there a lip at the top of the cylinder, enough that you can catch your fingernail on it? If so, you are probably talking about an overbore with new pistons and rings.

Delta Cams has a great RV cam for a bit more power, if your cam can be reground, or get a Crane cam and the modified lifters.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

Tom... and here I was thinking I could do it all myself with some 80 grit sandpaper :)
Yep, it's going to need quite a bit of machine shop work!
Regarding a "lip" on the top of the cylinder; not quite. The top quarter inch feels different from the smooth bore for all cylinders, but only on #1 cylinder was there anything at all where I could feel my fingernail 'catch' at all, and only a tiny bit...
Geoffrey M Baker

Geoff, there is no reason to pull the gearbox just to get the block out. Just support the gearbox from below, attach a hoist to the block, undo the gearbox bolts and front mounts, and lift the block out. You just have to slide forward before going up, to separate the gearbox input shaft from the pilot hole in the crank. I always pull the engine alone unless the gearbox has to come out also.

Steve S
2:26

Agreed no need to pull the box, but if you do, seats out, carpet, gearbox cover, floors. then its mechanical, disconnect clutch lever from rod. remove exhaust mounting bracket. mark shaft coupling to gearbox, undo and suspend shaft with wire coat hanger/wire etc after pushing it towards rear of car. remove speedo connect. undo gearbox mounting bolts. remove bellhousing cover inspection plate. support engine. undo bell housing bolts. pull gearbox back and out using inspection hole for leverage.

think thats it, did I forget owt?
mog

Thanks mog. I'm going to try it as Steve says, without pulling the gearbox.
First things first though, I have to build a hoist. Off to Home Depot for 2 8ft 4x4s and some 2x6s. I have a 'come-along' rated for enough to hold the engine (2000 lbs).
Another project, another day :)
Geoffrey M Baker

Geof,
Dave Braun's website has the best step-by-step instructions for teardown and rebuild.
http://www.dbraun99.com/mgtd15470/
Spend a little time reading and save a whole lot out from under the car.

The question in the back of my mind is, how much rebuilding was performed 3000 miles ago? You're engine is just broken in. Have a machinist evaluate your components before spending a fortune unnecessarily.

"Regarding a "lip" on the top of the cylinder; not quite. The top quarter inch feels different from the smooth bore for all cylinders, but only on #1 cylinder was there anything at all where I could feel my fingernail 'catch' at all, and only a tiny bit..."

I just removed ridges from four worn cylinders, honed them and finished with what you described, I still see a spot where I can barely catch my fingernail...

so YOURS IS IN BETTER SHAPE THAN THE ONE I'M REASSEMBLING, FOR A SUPERCHARGER!

Keep reboring and there won't be anything left to bore out in the future, like ours.
JRN JIM

Geof,
Before doing anything else, go take a glimpse at Dave's writeup. You might do as he did (he is an engineer and thought this through)- rent a cherry picker and save a bunch of time. Easier and less chance of a catastrophe. The money you save on lumber will about offset the rent.

Does anyone in Arizona have a chery picker for loan?
JRN JIM

I dunno, Jim. Last time I pulled an engine (30+ years ago) it broke and dropped the engine. Rental shops aren't to be trusted to maintain their equipment properly...
I can build a better tougher one for a quarter the cost of buying a cheap Harbor Freight one, or about half the cost of rental, I think... and when I'm done I can always reuse the materials for something else...
Also, to avoid confusion, I'm not sure what you are referencing when you refer to '3000 miles ago' - I think you must be thinking about some other thread. The last engine rebuild (about which we know nothing) happened at least 30 years ago. On the other hand, it may well only have 3000 miles on it since then :)
Geoffrey M Baker

Check Craigslist for used engine hoists. I see Harbor Freight hoists on there all the time for $50 or so, usually only used a couple of times. Then again if it's just a bare block, you can probably have your neighbor help you lift it out. I lifted a short block (crank and pistons installed) into the trunk of a sedan by myself last week.
2:26

I think its a question of Murphy's Law (Corollary #44) : When you need something, none will ever be found in your price range. Craigslist has half a dozen engine hoists, none for less than $275 in my area.
It's the block plus the flywheel and clutch housing that I want to lift. I would try it with a couple of guys, but the radiator is removed which means nothing is holding the front fenders on, and I would hate for them to get damaged...
Still looking like a bunch of 2x6s is my best bet...
Geoffrey M Baker

My mixup on what century we're in, you're rebuild last century while I'm thinking of the burned valve thread with only 3000 miles on the rebuild.
I've pulled a few engine in my garage by slipping a piece of pipe through a number of trusses and hitching the comealong on the pipe.
JRN JIM

The garage roof is VERY flimsy and I would not trust any of the rafters (or any group of them) to support any weight at all in that area...
Geoffrey M Baker

goeff,
No question, it would be best to just remove the block,,, There has got to be a rental place or your FLAPS that you can rent a reliable engine hoist from,,,

I'm not sure what you mean by removing the clutch housing?????? The clutch is in the BELL housing, and that stays on the trannie,,, The clutch is attached to the flywheel, which comes off with the block/crank.

You have everything off the engine, and the rad is removed,,, You are going to be very surprised how quickly (and easily) it will come out!!
STEVE
Steve Wincze

This thread was discussed between 23/03/2015 and 24/03/2015

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