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MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG TD TF 1500 - Reproduction Brass Octagonal Engine Plates

I'd appreciate suggestions as to who carries the most authentic looking plates for my early TD back up engine. The block is ready to be assembled with just a couple of outstanding items to collect now. One is the brass octagon secured with a central pin, (FTFU provides a service that stamps your engine number onto the repro brass plate before shipping it off). Doug also sells the rivet. This plate sits on its plinth on the right hand side of the car, as most of you already know. What may not be so well known is that the engine number is also stamped into the block, NOT JUST above the plinth on the right hand side, but also in much smaller numerals on the eyebrow above the cast M.G. on the passenger side of early TD blocks. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter, have you got a photo of the stamped engine number above the MG logo?

David
David Wardell

Hi Dave. Yes I have but it is difficult to read. I can send you a copy if it would help you? There are quite a few pics in the gallery on Chris Couper's site of the stamped number above the plinth on the right hand side that carries the brass plate. Are you enquiring about the font and the size of these tiny numerals? Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

David, here's a pic that I just took of the freshly painted block. It shows the location of the small numerals above the MG casting. The numbers are directly below the words 'Engine Number location'. I have numbered all of the fixing points and by using the info in the WSM from 1950 and by looking at the pics in Chris's gallery, I think I know what some of them are for. Dave's list has been really helpful in providing the names of the fixings, French Metric thread sizes and lengths; but I seek confirmation of what bolt corresponds to the numbers I've placed in the attached pic?

Also can anyone please recommend the supplier of the most original looking brass octagonal engine I.D. plate currently available? Cheers
Peter TD 5801


P Hehir

Peter, you may want to talk to Lew Palmer. I think he can make the harass tags. I saw an example of his work in making a brass tag for a oil filter canister.

Bill Chasser
TD/c-8151
W A Chasser

Thanks Bill. I'll email Lew. With the numbered pic I missed one. It's just above the letter 'k' in Dipstick and below the hole identified as #13. Has anyone compared the FTFU engine brass octagons and pins with an original? If so are they an accurate reproduction? Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter,
Why not contact Doug Pelton (FTFU) and ask about his octagons. Since he does concours restorations I’d imagine they’d be damn close.
Gene Gillam

I had intended to do that as well Gene but first I wanted to get opinions from people who'd been previously presented with this question and be guided by their experience. I do rate Doug but ideally I'd love a pic showing the original and Doug's repro, so that I could compare them.

With the threaded holes in the block it's so much easier if you pull the engine apart yourself, bag and tag everything, then it's plain sailing. But this block was just that. A bare block, no sump, crank, cam, timing cover, bearer plate or head; although it did have a few of the bolts, but not many. She'll be made up of 4/44 parts, early TD, late TD and maybe even a few TC and TF bolts as well. Just as long as they all carry the correct heads, threads and lengths. It's a challenge. but I'm having a great time. :-) Thanks for your post. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Hi Peter

I can answer one query - the characters below the question mark are the casting date code for the block. Have a look at

https://www.mgcc.co.uk/t-register/registers/t-type-chassis-and-engine-identification/#castingnumbers

In your picture you can also just see the foundry casting mark below the cast MG logo which you haven't marked up. I'm guessing it's a W in a diamond (or 'lozenge') but depending on the casting date, it could just be MM inside a lozenge.

As for the engine number being stamped just above the MG logo, I've never seen it before so a picture as evidence would be good. The nearest thing thing I've seen is that early XPAG replacement engines had their reconditioning data inscribed in the position you describe.

David
David Wardell

Hi David. This is a close up of the tiny numbers above the cast MG on the left hand side of the block. You can just make out the numbers which exactly match the engine numbers stamped above the plinth on the other side of the block and on the bulkhead brass ID plate. These tiny numbers would only ever be visible to those who had their blocks chemically stripped and who actually spent some time closely examining all of the details on the block. Even with a nude block they are very easy to miss. One or two coats of paint would have obliterated all evidence of these numbers more than sixty years ago. Cheers
Peter TD 5801


P Hehir

Wow Peter, not seen that before. Very many thanks for the photo.

David
David Wardell

As I'm keen to source this plate I've sent the following email to 13 suppliers of M.G. TD parts in Europe and here in Oz as well as to FTFU.

"I’m writing to all of the known suppliers of parts for M.G. TDs. I’m seeking photographs of the octagonal brass engine number plated mounted on the right hand side of the engine and the pin that secures it. Originality is important to me. Close enough isn’t good enough. Can you please send me a pic of the octagonal brass plates that you supply? I have a detailed pic of an original plate and want to purchase one that is as close as humanly possible to the original. I’m attempting a Concours restoration."

Please provide your price including shipping to Sydney Australia.

Thanking you in anticipation.

Regards
Peter Hehir
TD 5801

P Hehir

In relation to the threaded holes in the block illustrated and numbered above, based on Dave's list, the WSM, emails and conversations recently, this is what I now believe are their purpose. I've used the terminology from a 1952 WSM. The XPAG engine was built in early 1951.

1. Plug oil feed hole
2. Plug oil hole bypass
3. Bolt dynamo bracket
4. Screw dowel bearing
5. Bolt dynamo bracket
6. Plug oil feed hole
7. ? Distributor fixing TBC
8. ? Oil Filter fixing TBC
9. ? Oil Filter fixing TBC
10 ? Oil Filter fixing TBC
11. Screw dowel bearing
12. Screw banjo to block (Original TBC)
13. Plug oil feed hole

Some of these components can be cross referenced with Dave Dubois list which has been a huge help. There are a couple of errors in the WSM legends and illustrations though. Any info you can provide in relation to 1, 2, 6, 7, 10, 12 and 13 would be appreciated. Length and head shape and size particularly. Confirmation on the thread on 12 would be helpful also. TYIA. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Hi Peter,
Your oil filter bypass appears to be in place. If that has been replaced since cleaning the block, all is ok, but if it was still in place during that process, there could be muck behind it which could be very damaging. It is the brass fitting (with central hole) recessed into the face where the oil pump fits. It is a friction fit and can be removed by screwing in a bolt (8mm x 1mm from memory) and then pulling the bolt straight out. There should be a ball, spring and seat behind it.

I have noticed engine numbers stamped directly into TC blocks, although at different locations than yours. I was never sure if that was factory or done by engine rebuilders so they would not get parts mixed up when having a couple dismantled together

Regarding your numbers, I assume you have a packet of those bolts?
1, 6, and near the k: Short tapered-thread plugs to seal the main gallery, There should be five because there are two holes at positions 1 and 2.
4 and 11 are bolts with dowels at the end which locate the #2 and #3 camshaft bearings. They also have 1/4 BSW heads which are cross drilled.
2 is a short, coarse threaded brass plug to seal the short rising gallery. It also has a 1/4 BSW head.
7 is a bolt with dowel at end which locates the distributor. The dowel fits into the groove around dizzy body. Head is 5/16 BSW. Head is cross-drilled.
12 is for the oil pipe banjo bolt.
13 is for the banjo bolt for the oil supply to the head. Pretty sure the thread is 10mm x 1 mm. That bolt should have a male thread on the head where the oil pressure gauge pipe fits.
3 & 5 Generator bracket and 8, 9, 10 Oil filter base bracket bolts should be short bolts with thread almost to the head. Heads should be 5/16 BSW.
Pretty sure all 8mm bolts have 1mm thread, but beware my knowledge comes from TCs, not TDs and it has been a while since I re-tapped any threads. Also, "BSW" is what it says on some of my spanners, while others are marked "BS" or "W". I have never bothered to decipher the issue because I just use spanners which work!
Bob

R L Schapel

Hi Bob. "Your oil filter bypass appears to be in place. If that has been replaced since cleaning the block, all is OK, but if it was still in place during that process, there could be muck behind it which could be very damaging."

It was cleaned just as you see. I had no idea about the necessity to remove the oil filter bypass. I'll have a go at following your instructions for removal. I do have a good collection of original bolts with maker's names on the heads, some of which came from the 4/44, others from a TTORC member in the Blue Mountains and still others that I'd had collected over the years. You're correct about the thread as most are 8 mm x 1, though there are a few 6 mm x 1 on the engine. (Both French Metric). Dave's list has been brilliant. My spanners are from original tool kits (BSF, British Standard Fine and W, Whitworth). One is just one size larger (or smaller) than the other. If I get stuck removing the beast of which you speak I'll give you a call. Many thanks for the heads up. This info confirms much of what I already knew, except for the oil filter bypass.

I understand the early TD block is more like the TC than the later TD/TF/4/44 blocks. The WSM from 1952 shows plugs 1 and 2 as being different in the head shape. What I did miss is the one below 13, which I assume is the same as 1, 6, 13? and what I'm now calling 14. Many thanks Bob. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Any further mention of the bolt question has been shifted to the thread on sump bolts as the two issues need to be separated.

I contacted 13 suppliers of TD parts seeking the octagonal brass engine plate and only three responded. Doug doesn't have any but is looking into having them made, Anglo and the other responder seem unaware of the small circular brass section that carries the words M.G. TD and XPAG. So I have no idea where to pick up the correct original two brass plates and the pin/rivet. HELP! Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

This is what appears to be the original plate and comes from Chris Couper’s gallery. I found it on the internet by googling the original early TD engine badge. It seems that no one has any idea where good reproductions of this three? part item can be found. This engine # isn't that far from the one on the early TD block that I'm rebuilding. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

For some reason the pic didn't load.

P Hehir

Peter

Nothing amongst all that stuff at Baulkham Hills? There were a number of blocks that had starter motor mounts smashed, not sure if they were XPAG.

Graeme
G Evans

There are plates on Morris blocks there Graeme but I need a cleanskin that I can stamp the appropriate numbers on. The block I'm rebuilding has no plate. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter

Here are sources for plates(2 items) plus securing rivet:

https://www.mgocspares.co.uk/acatalog/MGOC_SPARES_ID_PLATES__TD___TF__628.html


https://www.angloparts.com/en/catalogues/group/767/mgtd-tf-engine?page=2


Graeme
G Evans

Tried 'em both Graeme and no joy. Anglo don't have the small centre plate, the octagonal plate doesn't appear to have the border and the other mob didn't get back to me. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter. Did you ever contact Lew Palmer. This is a sample of what he did for an oil filter for a customer. Picture Credited to Lew Palmer. He Had a conversation with me last year stating he could make the buttons and I presume he can make a correct appearing tag as well. M

Bill Chasser
TD-4834

W A Chasser

No Bill. Lew was my ace in the hole. I wanted to see what was available over the counter and boy is it disappointing!! I will definitely email Lew. He's been really helpful in the past. But I have to think that hand made stuff is probably way beyond the top end of my budget. I'm a time rich cash poor restorer. :-) Cheers mate.
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Brown and Gammons have them, including the brass rivet -

https://www.ukmgparts.com/product/td-midcat-13-subtd1-engine-external-parts/engine-number-plate-blank-t-bgs1074

And so do NTG -
http://www.ntgservices.co.uk/contents/en-uk/p4209_Octagon-Engine-Plate-Set.html

David
David Wardell

Dave I've exchanged emails with Linda at NTG but they can't supply an original looking version. She has suggested a firm that might be able to help. I haven't heard back from the other supplier you mentioned. Lew and I have been in contact and he is following this thread. The key to success is to actually have a die made which is something that none of the suppliers seem to have done. Doug from FTFU is looking to manufacture one, but there were two dies used during the production run of the TD alone. The original as per Chris's pic, the TD 2 which just had a 2 stamped roughly beside the TD and the TD 3 die. The TC was different again. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter

I am confused regarding your comment regarding Anglo Parts ability to supply, P/No 085.016 and 085.017 are both showing as stock items. These are the two components involving the Octagon Plate. The Engine Plates are separate items and are T model specific.

Hopefully I will have photographic images of both items forwarded to me as you have raised my curiosity.

I will throw you an additional curve ball. How difficult would it be to peen out the existing numbers on one of the Morris block plates and re stamp with your engine number. Might save you some of your pennies.

Graeme
G Evans

Hi Graeme. I'll give you a call. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

The latest is as follows. The octagonal plate is brass. No surprise there. The centre is BRONZE, not brass and the pin is steel, NOT brass. So nobody supplies the original engine I.D. plates for a TD or a TD 3. Bummer. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter You have been misinformed. Below are two examples of original TD buttons. You will note that the Octagons and Buttons are made from the same brass sheet

The sample on the right is an original XPAG TYPE TD button used on all early TDs with a 7-1/4” clutch.

The button on the left is an example of a early TD2 button that was in use until early June 1952. Which uses the original XPAG Type TD button but is hand stamped with a 3mm “2”’ designating an 8” clutch was used.

Bill Chasser
TD-4834





W A Chasser

'Peter You have been misinformed' It wouldn't be the 1st time Bill. Agree about the #2 stamp indicating TD/2 with the 8" clutch. In your pic one of the pins is steel as rust is visible. The centre section of both certainly appear to be brass. Could this be a case of different suppliers? No argument about the brass octagon. Perhaps both brass and bronze centre pieces were used depending on the source.

Bruce from Sportsparts here in Sydney is certain the pins were steel and the centres were bronze, just as appears in the pic I posted from Chris's site. When you google T Type engine number ID plates quite a few images appear suggesting the centres may have been either brass or bronze. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Interesting, i had an original untouched block with a later number than Bill's but without the 2
Notice 2 different brass colours and steel pin

What chassis number did TD2 start from

William Revit

I purchased an octagonal brass engine ID plate this morning from Sportsparts here in Sydney that looks just as good as the original. The 'bronze' centre piece however looked more like copper than either brass or bronze and it simply carried the following; TYPE across the top and XPAG at the bottom, so I left it there. This is one of a batch he's had made at some point. I forgot to pick up the steel pin though, but as I still don't have an original centre piece that also carries the letters TD, that can wait. If anyone has an original centre piece that is correct for an early TD then I'm a buyer. Also purchased some external components for the sump.

Bob S, getting info on #2 in my pic is getting tougher by the minute. Bruce leafed through his spare parts books and was able to find the original part #. But that's where the trail stopped. All it said was something like 'order as required'. I also have a spare parts book from 1950 so I'll post the original #. Somebody may have some idea of a description, size, thread, head, length, material etc. It is a very different beast from the other oil gallery plugs. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Going through my TD photos and came across this engine ID plate (XPAG/TD2/29537). Note the 2 in TD2 is actually pressed into the metal, not stamped. The same as shown by Chris on his mgtd_etchings page under Engine ID Plate (XPAG/TD2/18753).

So I wonder around which engine the stamped 2 finished and pressed TD2 started.

This is not my engine, which I will check tomorrow.

Stuart

Stuart Duncan

Stuart , refer back to my previous post. The embossed/pressed TD2 tags occurred about the same time as when the TD3 tags began. This was June or immediately prior to June of 1952.

My TD MKII (TD/c-16920) was equipped with XPAG/TD3/17292 according to the Gauranty plate on the firewall and daily production records The engine was installed on June 7, 1952 According to Tom Lange with the help of the daily production records this was the third TD3 “designated” engine installed in a MK II chassis. Although Tom disagrees on this point, empirical evidence shows this engine still came with a hand stamped TD2 tag. This was due to the TD3 tags had not yet been made available to the engine production line before the engine had been installed in the chassis. This occurred on several of the new MKII designated TD3 engines and is noted in the NEMGTR Handbook. According to Mike Shea, a noted MKII expert, during a conversation he and I had several years ago, this anomaly may have been present on a dozen or so early TD3 equipped cars.

I also have XPAG/TD/3/17678 with a TD3 tag that came out of TD/c-17563 built on June 27, 1952. Note that these two engines are 271 numbers from each other on the engine assembly line. It would be helpful to me if Tom Lange who has copies of the original daily production line records could provide how many MK IIs were produced between June 9-27, 1952 along with their chassis and engine numbers. This would help to narrow down just how many possible TD3s may have occurred with the TD2 tag anomaly. I could then research the various registries to see if any of those cars are present and to further attempt to make contact with their current owners. Also, If anyone out here has a MK II built between these dates it could further narrow down the anomaly figures.

I believe at this point all of the various buttons used on TD/ XPAGs have been pictured in this thread as follows

XPAG TYPE TD
7/1/4” clutch

XPAG TYPE TD2 (Hand Stamp w/3mm “2”)
XPAG TYPE TD2 (embossed)
8” clutch

XPAG TYPE TD3 (embossed)
8” clutch (TD MK II)

Bill Chasser
TD-4834
TD/c-8151
TD/c-16920
TD-19408
TD-24060


W A Chasser

Thanks Stuart. Nice pic. That could be the 1st pressed TD 2 centre piece that I've seen and it is clearly made of brass. It's a very late car judging by the number. There might be something about the change from TD 2 stamp to TD 2 die in one of the books that I have. I'll check tomorrow. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

The best explanation for the stamped badges is that there were "TD" badges left over when the use of TD2 engines came into steady use, and rather than waste the left-over "TD" badges they just stamped them with an additional "2". There would have been no reason to keep the earlier TD badges at that point, since there were no more "TD" engines.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

Peter,
I emailed you with a photo of a pair of tags I made for the MPJG engine on a TA, but haven't heard back. I would have to redo the mask for an XPAG, but it is a challenge I would undertake.

Note that the tags are reverse etched, not stamped, but I doubt anyone could see the difference. Don't let the attached picture fool you. This tag has been kicking around for a few years and has gotten quite scratched and beat up.

Don't worry about cost. We'll work something out, like a trade.

Just let me know. You have my email.


Lew Palmer

Bill - I count 82 TD/C cars made between 9 and 27 June, 1952. I'll send the list of chassis and engine numbers off-line, unless someone is eager to have it here.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

Bill, your latest post clearly outlines the different centre XPAG engine tags. I missed the changed over date in your earlier post, my apology.

Peter, I thought you would have seen the TD2 tag on Chris's website.

Stuart
Stuart Duncan

Somehow I missed that Stuart. I got the pics I have from googling T Type octagonal engine I.D. tag images. Apologies Lew I did get your email but was waiting for the replies from the 13 suppliers I'd contacted. Bit like Waiting for Godot though. I've had issues with OS emails for about a month now and a couple of days ago I changed my email address and got rid of Telstra's server which seems to have fixed the problem. Unless I do find an original TD centre in the next week or two I'll come to some arrangement with you. I do like the idea of a trade. I have some pristine NOS PLC 2 ignition switch bodies that may be of use to you. I'll contact you off line. I'll also make contact with the TTORC members here in Oz. I might get lucky. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

I now have an original TD 2 die pressed/stamped engine ID plate that I'm swapping for another original TD centre plate. This is correct for the early TD block, prior to the TD 2 with the 8" clutch. I have taken some pics before I remove the steel pin that secures it to the block. The pics were taken upside down. I've saved them the right way up but they appear here as they were shot. Don't ask me why. The pin is clearly steel. This is a block that I purchased recently from the owner of a sizeable T type collection. I'll post a couple more pics once I have the three pieces, the octagon, the pin and the brass centre that make up the ID plate sitting on the bench. I'd been advised earlier that the centre piece was bronze. Sure looks like brass to me. If anyone has the car that XPAG TD2 28868 was originally fitted to, then contact me. Happy to swap the original numbered octagon as shown for something that I need. Cheers
Peter TD 5801





P Hehir

Peter - a couple of things. First, engine XPAG/TD2/28868 was originally fitted to TD28477, an EXR car.

Second, is there any trace of the stamped engine number over the MG logo, as described above? I have looked at 11 engines this month, and none has a number stamped there! Six had the number on the plinth, five did not.

Finally - I am working on an XPEG engine and just removed the tags, and the hollow rivet is clearly steel, not brass, as I had remembered incorrectly.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

Tom the engine hasn't been chemically cleaned so it would be almost impossible to see these tiny numerals above the M.G. logo cast into the LH side of the block because of the paint that fills them. I can barely see mine now and only when the sun hits it at a certain angle. I was advised not to undercoat the engine as the less paint there is on the block, the better the heat transference. Made sense to me. I thinned the enamel a little to get a better flow with the brush and to use just enough paint to provide good coverage. I'll wire brush that area on the other block while I'm waiting for the primer, filler and paint to dry on the rocker cover, as a couple of imperfections are now apparent after spraying the silver. That was annoying. I'll post the result.

Odd about the engine number not being stamped as shown in my pic on the plinth. Here in NSW they insist on seeing the number stamped into the block. No stamp, no rego. The other drama is proof of ownership. The Registry only keep records going back 10 years and I don't have the rego papers from either 1969 or 1970, the last time I registered it. Apparently The NSW Motor Registry inspector just laughs when the brass I.D. plate is pointed out. "Mate anybody could have stuck that there" is the response.

A further note about the steel rivet. I spent a frustrating three hours yesterday attempting to use a centre punch to drive it out after spraying with WD 40. I finally resorted to trying to drill it out from inside the block. I was using new tungsten drill bits starting at 1 mm and got nowhere. That pin is some tough steel. I'll leave it for a couple of days and keep applying WD 40 before I have another go with the punch. Same deal with the brass countersunk slot headed plug at the rear of the long oil gallery. More soaking with WD 40, which so far just pools in the head recess, so it isn't reaching the threads. Some heat from my propane torch and an impact screw driver will hopefully produce a result. Apparently these brass plugs are unobtainium so I don't want to damage it. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter;
If you cannot drill it, it must be hard.
Somethig that hard could be a drive screw.
If so, and with no head left, it can only be driven out.
Use a flat punch, not a center punch.
On try from the inside.

Jim B.

JA Benjamin

Good lord...
efh Haskell

Thanks for the post Jim. See pic above. I'm working from the inside and the exterior is exactly as depicted in the pics I posted. It hasn't shifted in 67 years. I started with the centre punch to ensure I was hitting the pin and not the block. I have a series of flat headed Stanley punches and I'll use one that is slightly smaller than the dia of the hole. I've bent the smallest of those already. But I'll persevere. The illustration you provided suggests it's going to be really difficult, but I know that already. I don't want to punch a hole in the block by hitting too hard. All suggestions that actually work are welcomed. Heat? May just expand the metal around the hole and shrink it and end up making things tougher. The advice from a mechanic mate is "Just punch it out". He hits engines way harder than I'm game to though. I'd hate to wreck a perfectly good block. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter

Spend your pennies and get some of this:

Loctite LB 8040 Freeze & Release 310g

Available at Repco

Be wary of using filler on your Rocker Cover expansion and contraction may compromise the bond, might be better to peen,file and sand.

Graeme
G Evans

The rivet is very definitely a hollow steel rivet, and NOT a drive screw. The rivet was poorly peened in my XPEG engine, and the head stood enough proud of the brass XPEG ring that I was able to grab it with a pair of linesman's pliers, and pull it out that way. Not re-usable, I'm embarrassed to say, without quite a bit of work.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair




t lange

I have no knowledge of the XPEG but this one on the XPAG Tom is definitely solid. See the second pic I posted. It is clearly a solid steel pin. This is clear in the first of the two pics. Jim isn't the first to mention a drive pin. Changes and improvements were made during the evolution of the T Types. Many were not documented. As you know of those that were, many of these records were binned sometime after production ceased. These cars and the components were never intended to last 70 years, nor were some of them ever meant to be removed. I'll give the product you recommend a go Graeme. The smear of filler on the rocker cover will be applied to primed bare metal in two small areas, about the size of a five cent piece. I don't see heat being much of an issue as the rocker cover sits on a cork insulator on top of the head. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

I wrote quickly and imprecisely, for which I apologize. My calling it a hollow pin suggests that it is entirely hollow all the way to the head, but it is NOT; the end is hollow to a depth of about .33", to allow it to be peened over from inside the engine. The majority of the pin is solid.

I don't believe that drive pins were used anywhere in a T-series car. The badge on my Triumph T100C yes, my MG, no.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

No need to apologise Tom. We are both passionate people and we obviously share a common love of T Types. For you it's a business, for me I do it purely for the love of it. I neither seek nor want any form of recompense for the considerable amount of time I spend. My primary interest at this moment is to remove whatever it is that holds the engine I.D. plate in place. This is one of the last items on my 'to do' list before the block is handed over to the engine rebuilder. Any sensible suggestion as to how that might be achieved will be of benefit. Not just to me but to all of those who follow this TD/TF forum. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

On the tags I've had to remove, I find it possible to tap the rivet/drive screw out from the inside using a small diameter punch.
Lew Palmer

Agree
If you're worried about hitting it too hard, get someone to hold a heavy hammer or similar against the out side of the block on a socket or something around the pin area
Give him a hit from the inside with a decent pin punch, he'll come out
willy
William Revit

Thanks Willy. Success! The peened over end of the drive pin (See pic) was moving me fractionally off centre, which is what was making the thing so hard to remove. The flat headed 1/8" Stanley punch and a lump hammer finally did the trick. Still took about half an hour to drive it out though. This looks exactly like the drawing that Jim posted yesterday. Sure looks like a drive pin/drive screw to me. Hollow it ain't. The chewed up bit at the top was me trying to drill it out. I broke 3 x 1/8" drill bits before I gave that idea away!

If anyone has chassis # TD28477, an EXR car no doubt imported into Australia, then this octagonal plate belongs with that car. Some sort of small item exchange would be all I ask and we each pay the postage. I'm swapping the centre bit with someone who has the badge that reads TYPE . XPAG . TD . The pin is steel. The other two parts are brass. Cheers
Peter TD 5801





P Hehir

Just checked the 2020 TD Merson List. The closest cars to the one on the plate that I have both went to the States.

28466 LHD Gambier, OH. USA
28493 22047 22047 LHD Sacramento, CA. USA

Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

TD 28477 is one of a daily batch of 5 cars in a row, all EXR, so not destined for the US:

TD 28475 EXR
TD/C 28476 EXR
TD 28477 EXR
TD 28478 EXR
TD 28479 EXRk (Kilometer speedo)

On the same day the production of these cars is preceded by an earlier EXR car, TD 28450, a group of 5 Home cars (not so noted on-line), and a bunch of EXLNA cars.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

Here's a shot of the bit of the engine ID plate that I need. It's just the brass circle in the centre with the lettering. Anybody got one? I have the brass octagon, which is a great reproduction and I've stamped it to match the number on the block in a font and typeface very close to the original. This is all that's holding up the rebuild. I want to fit the ID plate first to ensure that it is correctly peened from the inside, before the sleeves, crank, pistons and camshaft are installed. Does anyone have one that they are willing to part with? I'm getting desperate! Also my search for a source of steel drive pins is drawing a blank. I have an original TD 2 centre in perfect condition that I'm willing to part with if that helps anyone. Cheers
Peter TD 5801


P Hehir

Peter

A few possibilities for the escutcheon pin you are chasing:

These are steel either with a brass or zinc plating which if the sizing is correct could be removed.

https://www.thewoodworks.com.au/shop/hardware/escutcheon-pins-list-of-all/pin-escutcheon-brass-plated-steel-detail

https://www.mcmaster.com/domed-head-nails/

Screw nails might be the best option.

Graeme
G Evans

I think I have the pin sorted Graeme. They are called U Hammer Screw Pins here and are about 39 cents each. Made in Newcastle! Plated in a yellow zinc they might look OK against the brass. They also have the correct head, however I can easily buff the plating of it. Also I now have a #2 on my pic, the brass oil filler plug. It arrived from Qld this morning. I still need the TYPE XPAG TD centre to fit the engine badge before the block rebuild. This is all that's holding me up, that and the front and rear oil gallery plugs. Can't get through to Ballingal. Hopefully they can help me out. They are incredibly pricey in the States, made even more so by the exchange rate, GST and the shipping.. I may resort to seeing if its possible to make a couple from a 12 mm x 1.5 black bolt. These are available over the counter here in Sydney. I just need to check to see if the plug holes are tapered. I can't see why a steel plug can't be used in lieu of the brass one at the rear. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Here's a pic of the drive screw. A box of 1,000 costs $66. I was able to buy a dozen from the manufacturer in Newcastle. (The one north of Sydney). Cheers
Peter TD 5801

P Hehir

The U Hammer screw pins/drive screws have arrived. They are identical to the original pin that I removed, described, and photographed above. Cost 24 cents each plus shipping. All up $14 for a dozen. Almost all of that was GST and postage. Also available in a box of 1,000 for $66. I'll spin one in my drill press and remove the yellow zinc from the head with a wire brush and see how it presents. I may well go with the raw steel, again as per original. They also included one of what I presume is the 8 gauge. The supplier is Newcastle Hi Tensile Bolt Company in Carrington NSW. Cheers
Peter TD 5801





P Hehir

Unless the engine from which you removed that drive screw had never been rebuilt, I still strongly doubt it is factory. Not only have I never seen a drive screw in any of the 40 or so engines I have completely stripped down for various reasons, I have dismantled four or five "virgin" TD and TF engines over the past 20 years - every one had a partial-hollow round-head rivet, as shown in my and Bill Chasser's posts and photos above. The "virgin" engines were all STD across the board with MOWOG parts, and had clearly never been apart.

I know you strive for authenticity and correctness, but I wager money the drive screw is incorrect. What an embarrassment to lose points in a concours d'elegance due to an incorrect engine tag rivet...

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

Peter

Dont know if you want to add to your collection. I came across a TC centre engine plate, if your interested let me know.

Graeme
G Evans

It does seem strange Tom. The hollow tail that I assume is peened over would be clearly visible from inside the blocks that you've stripped? The drive pin I removed had been peened on the inside. See pic 2 taken on the 13th. Of course nobody here bothers to remove the engine I.D. plates from the block when rebuilding an engine, even if going to the extent of having the block completely stripped down and chemically cleaned in the tank. Redi-Strip in Sydney confirm that the brass I.D engine plates are not affected and the owner says they don't require removal and so are only very rarely if ever removed, prior to dipping. Aluminum of course is eaten by the process. I'm just replacing the fixing that was there, like with like. The head is the only part that is visible Tom so no Concours embarrassment or concerns here! The yellow zinc was easily removed from the head and it is a very tight fit in the hole, only entering a short distance before it will need to be hammered in.

There are are those who believe drive pins were used, perhaps when semi tubular rivets were in short supply. Others who believe they were brass then there are those who are convinced that they were steel. Probably yet another case of use what is available.

Graeme someone in our club will no doubt be glad of an original. It might also give me a bit more bartering power. Happy to take it off your hands. Thanks mate. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

If I could attach a picture I would! I have recently finished a 3D printed brass reproduction plate which has proven very successful. A second was made for another XPEG owner who is very pleased. If I had sufficient interest I could crank these up. They are not cheap! I think it is the best solution to the problem. It brings the two parts of the ID tag together in one print. The pin fixing is not included as yet. If anyone is curious send me an email and I can send the image individually.
An XPAG tag would involve further design cost but could be done. Production takes a bit of time.
L D I Scott

Mr Scott. You have mail. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Brass tag I tried to put up earlier
L D I Scott

scottian70@outlook.com if interested

L D I Scott

This thread was discussed between 28/08/2020 and 05/10/2020

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