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MG TD TF 1500 - T-Series con rods on eBay

I'm considering rebuilding a spare block I've got, linered with a +.120" overbore.

There's a set of con rods on eBay see:- http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-New-Set-of-4-Connecting-Rods-W-Bolts-for-MG-TD-TF-Improved-Type-/151537353011?fits=Year%3A1951Make%3AMG&hash=item2348548133:g:4o4AAOSwk5FUsbqN&vxp=mtr

Seems to come from somebody in Tennessee. Good rods are not made haphazardly. They should be drop-forged and heat treated, machined, checked for true in all planes and finally Magnafluxed.

If they're any good, they're good value for $600.

Does anybody know anything about this outfit in Tennessee? Seems they're producing a lot of retro stuff for Ts.

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.
Gord Clark

Gord, those rods look like stock XPEG rods. They may be new but I don't think they are anything special. "Improved style" probably refers to the fact that the XPEG rods were somewhat stronger but heavier than the "unimproved" TC and TD XPAG rods.
Cheers, Hugh
H.D. Pite

I purchased some electrical parts from them for my MGB. Was happy with the quality, and the transaction went very smoothly. John



JR Mahone

I would inquire - the photo may also be a stock photo. I would stay away from 1500 rods, which - as Hugh notes - are heavier than the earlier rods, to the point where you would be unnecessarily losing power. There's nothing inherently bad about original rods, if properly rebuilt and magnafluxed, with good bolts.

The Saenz bolts really are the trick way to go, with MGB bearing-sized journals...

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

Hi Guys,
I agree with Tom. Gerry Brown once told me (c 1990) that the XPEG racers in UK used XPAG rods due to the weight difference. (They probably use modern hi-tech rods now.) My view is that heavier rods put more load on the big-end bearings due to centrifugal forces. I once read that the centrifugal force provides a very high portion of the bearing load. From the photo I can't tell if they are XPAG or XPEG as I have seen very few of the latter.
Bob Schapel
R L Schapel

modern rods can be built for a little over that price and are way better than 50 odd year old rods IMHO.
TRM Maine

The rods in my present TF have been polished to a chrome-like finish. Then, using two pan balances, I got all 4 rods exactly equal, end-for-end. Matched the pistons, each ring, each wrist pin, each pinch bolt, and even the circlips, until all the reciprocating mass was within .1 g.

As you might imagine, my engine is very smooth.

Who makes a set of affordable rods for the XPAG? I can always buy a set of Carillos for $2,400, but for my need, $600 looks a lot better.

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué
Gord Clark

I bought Phoenix billet H beam rods through B&G. I think at the time they were about $1200 US. Reliability was my motivation for the expense as I plan to compete the car and fully expect to run this engine at 6k rpm for extended periods of time. Also when I tore my PO rebuilt engine down it had three XPAG and one XPEG rod. The big and small ends of the XPEG had been ground down so much to get it in the same weight range of the others that I deemed it unsafe to use. Affordable is a relative term. What is affordable for one is not for the other. The real question is... "Can you afford not to?"

Cheers

Bill Chasser
TD 4834



W. A. Chasser Jr

Great stuff Gord. You will get great service from rods treated like that. As Tom said ... originals which have been checked over and treated well are good for a stock (or mildly modified) engine. As you did the work yourself, you also have the satisfaction AND knowledge that it was done right.

I am surprised the eBay price is so high. I, and many other Australians, have a goldmine sitting in spares in our sheds! In Australia the Wolseley 4/44 saloon engine was just a de-tuned TF 1250 (same block and crank/rod numbers but single carb) and I would think many others (like myself) would have a few sets of W 4/44 rods as spares. Wolseley 4/44s were not thrashed like sports cars tend to be, so the bits should be less stressed! Were Wolseley 4/44s available in the USA?

Bob Schapel
R L Schapel

Bob - I think the difference is that these $600 rods are list as NEW.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

That is why I am questioning the source. They claim the rods are new, not NOS, and there is a difference. NOS I would be more trustful, but new ... well, who knows where they came from? and want about the quality?

As far as I know, the W4/44 was never sold in the US (or Canada for that matter) but a handful of LHD 6/90s did find their way to Canada. At a recent NAMGAR GOF, there were two; one belonging to the late Gordon Lawson who, until he passed, was a regular contributor to this forum.

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.
Gord Clark

Another possibility is to buy a set of used rods now on Ebay for $125. and send them to R&L machine who will will recondition them including magnaflux, replacing the bolts and re-sizing the big end and balance and supplying a pinch bolt that you can actually torque. You can send the pistons too and get all the reciprocating parts balanced at once.

I don't remember the price but I do remember it was reasonable.

http://www.rlengines.com/
JE Carroll

The con rods on Ebay are numbered 24005 and are XPAG NOT TF 1500. The *67 indicates a late batch possibly Wolseley 4/44

All the TF 1500 con rods I have are numbered 188559 as XPEG. They are noticably bigger.

I would imagine the steel is a better grade for the *67 batch, like the last 4/44 crankshafts.
RODNZ

I have to wonder how they then can be anything other than NOS? Would a reproduction bother with the number, including a batch number? Why would a reproduction use the difficult to torque pinch bolt rather than an internal wrenching type?

I guess it's worth contacting them.
JE Carroll

JE CARROLL,
Leo at R&L is doing my engine right now!
He has a very impressive operation up there..

Steve
Steve Wincze

Thanks Tom. I should have looked more closely at the wording and photo. I am guessing they must be NOS and if so, the price seems good after all (and my spares are not so valuable).

Thanks Rod for answering the question I was going to ask about numbers on XPEG rods. I have checked my spare XPAG rods and they are all 24005. Are you sure XPEG rods are 188559 and not 168559? The TF and Wolseley blocks were 168421, cranks were 168557 and the factory "full-race" cam was 168551 so 168 was a common prefix.

I believe the XPEG cranks were nitrided. Can someone confirm that for me? If they were different in some way, did they have a different number?

Bob Schapel
R L Schapel

Steve,

Leo is very sharing of his time as well. Since I have some small experience rebuilding auto and, many years ago, light aircraft engines, he let participate in magnafluxing some parts and gave me an in-depth tour of the shop. He will freely discuss the pros/cons of all sorts of things and friends have told me he stands behind his work.

My engine was partially assembled when I got it including new crank, pistons, cam, lifters, etc. I disassembled it as I didn't know anything about who did the work. I had checked the clearances and found it was all in spec but one rod, although the same number, was obviously new. I had Leo recondition the rods and install ARP bolts and balance all the recip/rotating parts.

I'm quite sure you'll be happy with his shop's work.

Jim
JE Carroll

The advert for the Ebay rods states "No core is needed ......". Does anyone know what this means ?
Thanks.
R A WILSON

RA,
That means that you don't have to send him your old ones (core) in exchange for the new ones.

Similar to brake shoes,, you send in your old warn shoes (core) and get new ones back.

steve
Steve Wincze

Yes Bob 168559, my eyes are getting tired.

Rod B
RODNZ

These are brand new reproduction rods, likely made in India. The manufacturer is XRN/County of the UK, but they use different firms around the world to produce their parts. This item was also formerly available through Moss Motors USA as their part 433-780, which was sourced from XRN/County.

I cannot comment on the rod quality itself, but I would be highly dubious of the hardware quality. We won't stock or use the XRN/County rod bolts for most applications, because they're so low quality... lathe cut threads, improper heat treat, no underhead radius on the bolts, etc. The last XRN/County rod bolts I rejected did have India as the country of origin.

I should say that not all XRN/County items are bad.

SportsCarPartsLTD on eBay is simply a parts reseller. They have wholesale/trade accounts with places like Moss and BPNW and then advertise and sell on Ebay. In this particular case they're likely sourcing from BPNW, who happens to have a lower retail price of $565 if you buy direct from BPNW. BPNW is a major importer into the USA for XRN/County items. In fact, I bet if you bought the eBay item, it would end up getting dropshipped direct to you from BPNW who are in Oregon (not Tennessee).





KMR Radicke

This thread was discussed between 01/03/2016 and 11/03/2016

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