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MG TD TF 1500 - TD engine numbers?

Good morning all.
Getting ready to order parts for the engine rebuild on my TD engine. The numbers on the toolbox do not match the number on the brass plate on the engine. car # off toolbox tag TD / 13267, engine # off toolbox plate XPAG/TD/TD2/LHX 13841, engine # off brass plate on engine (existing) 8507 type XPAG-TD. Any thoughts? I am thinking that it’s a replacement engine? Any way to tell where this engine came from? Thanks in advance, John
John Hambleton

John - yes, it appears you have a replacement engine. That is not unusual since in earlier days it was cheaper to buy a used junkyard engine than it was to rebuild yours, and I remember paying $150 for a running engine. Nobody ever thought these little cars would be collectible, and nobody considered that a matching-numbers car would be a desirable thing - they were daily transportation.

But as it turns out, you are fortunate that your replacement engine, XPAG/TD/8507 came from a Mark II car, TD/C 8698. Does it still have the larger H4 carbs unique to the Mark II?

Happy to help with any other questions. I'll be interested to hear what you find when you open up the engine. Please contact me off-line at tlange@acadia.net

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

Tom, Were there any differences in XPAG Blocks between the TD and the TD/C?
Bruce Cunha

Bruce - none. The differences were in the heads: taller compression, larger valves, stiffer springs.

Best,

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

Tom, can an normal TD head be modified to a TD/C head?

Tim
Timothy Burchfield

Yes - there is no problem enlarging the combustion chambers to fit 34/36mm valves. I have slightly modified the shape, as well, to be more like a Laystall Lucas head.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

John Hambleton: Just curious as I agree your engine was probably swapped back in the day. Very common and I have a car with that too.

What number is stamped on the block casting right above the octagonal plate?

Also what number is your car registered to? Your chassis number, old engine number, new engine number or some random number?
Christopher Couper

Hi Chris the car is registered with the above numbers off the toolbox & dumb irons. The engine #8507 off brass tag is at the machine shop so I can’t get the casting # right now. When I can I’ll post them.
John Hambleton

John, here's what to look for re casting numbers -

http://www.mgcc.co.uk/t-register/wp-content/uploads/sites/31/2016/02/Roger-Wilson-head-and-block-casting-numbers-v8.pdf

David
David Wardell

Hello,

I am interested in finding out where my engine block may have come from.

It has a cast MG logo, towards the front of the engine forward of the distributor, with the number 16005 stamped into the block above. An octagonal brass disc is located on the other side of the engine, again towards the front, with the number 16005 at the top of the disc and "XPAG" at the bottom of the disc.

The casting number above the MG logo is 24445, which would indicate a TD block, and there is a "diamond" below the MG logo, but I cannot make out whether it is an "MM" or a "W" inside it.

This engine was purchased at a garage sale some years ago and the owner could provide little information about its history.

Hopefully it is possible to work out some further aspects of this engine. Is it possible to determine the original car/chassis number that it my have appeared in?

regards,

Rhys Alexander,
Australia
TD12434
R Alexander

Photos would help.
R WILSON

24445 is indeed the casting number found on TD engines for the first couple of years of TD production, with the cast "W" logo.

Engine XPAG/TD2/16005 (I assume your brass disc shows TD2, and not just TD) originally was installed in TD 15619, produced on April 30, 1952 - a LHD car destined for North America.

I hope this is helpful information.

Best, Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

Hello Tom,

Thanks for your prompt response.

Having another closer look at the circular disc that is pinned on top of the octagonal one. It says "XPAG S.C."

Does this suggest that the motor may well be out of a "Y Type" ?


regards,

Rhys Alexander.

R Alexander

Indeed, the SC does denote a Single Carburettor as in a Y-type, which information could make my response incorrect.

Unfortunately I have no information on Y-type engines in the Production Records, and do not remember whether Y-type engines duplicated TD engine numbers, or or had their own, separate separate numbering sequence.

Can anyone clarify the Y-type numbering sequence?

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

The Y Types had I think their own numbering sequence starting at XPAG SC 10001 and the last engine used was XPAG SC2 18456, but the order in which they were installed in Y Types was all over the place. And ... the early Y Type records have all been lost and only records from Summer 1951 are still extant. I'm indebted to Roger Wilson for this information and I'm sure he will chip in to correct or clarify me.
One scenario for John's engine is that it was used in TD15619, which subsequently had a (different) engine replacement and then XPAG 16005 was refurbished by the factory as a Y Type engine. It happened. TD15619 is not known to the MGCC T Register.

David
David Wardell

Y types that were registered in the state of Victoria, Australia include engines 15997, 16023 and 16049 (all in the low 6,000 chassis range). I am guessing 16005 was a Y type registered in another Australian state.

Matthew.
M Magilton

The 24445 block was used for both T and Y engines, and was cast at two sites. Initially it was cast at the Morris Motors engine plant at Courthouse Green, Coventry, and such blocks would show the octagonal MG and diamond MM logos. Later, although transfer date not known, it was cast at a Wellingborough foundry, and such blocks would show the octagonal MG and diamond W logos. In the Y production records that remain, the lowest engine number is XPAG/SC2/16934, so we do not know which Y type received the engine XPAG/SC/16005. However, it would have had a 7¼" flywheel and clutch, so the bellhousing should have a 5/8" diameter clutch operating cross shaft.
R WILSON

This thread was discussed between 18/09/2018 and 26/09/2018

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