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MG TD TF 1500 - TD Oil

Hey guys been awhile since I have posted. I hope everyone is good! I know this has been discussed numerous times, however I wanted to confirm with you guys and get your thoughts on engine oil. I have always used Castrol HD-30 or 40 since my rebuild. I went to the auto store today and they did not have it. They did have the Valvoline VR1 20w-50. I have seen a lot of guys in here say that is what they use. My question is the 20w-50. Is that the only way the VR1 comes and if so is that OK? I bought 4 quarts assuming I would be fine. I also always add the 4oz bottle of ZDDP Moss sells regardless of what oil I use just to be safe. Your thoughts please?

Thanks
Rich King TD 8732

Used VR1 in the MGB and TF1500, wouldn't use anything else. I don't run my cars in the dead of winter anyway, so I don't need a lighter oil. Recomended oil for the MGB is 20/50! PJ
PJ Jennings

It is not necessary to add ZDDP to VR1 oil. It is formulated with the additive which is why most use it. Also you better get another Two qts if you expect to fill the crankcase.

Bill Chasser
TD-4834
W A Chasser

Never needed 6 quarts before, am I missing something?
Rich King TD 8732

No need to add ZDDP to any oil. They all have it. The levels were reduced years ago to something close to what oils had when these cars were produced and you see nothing in period literature regarding premature valve wear in this car. Regards, Tom
tm peterson

Rich, check the Engine Sump Capacity thread. Bud
Bud Krueger

Rich, Should you choose to go with Castrol 20w-50 I find that here in Eugene, Oregon Walmart Superstores have by far the best price in comparison to the usual auto supply stores.
John Quilter (TD8986)

I've recently switched to Castrol's Classic XL 20w/50, and what a difference! My tappets went quiet ( ..and I checked, they are still there, lol )
This oil is not available in the USA, but I will never again just use "of the shelf" modern oil.

I highly recommend a ZDDP additive or using a classic car specific oil like Valvoline VR1 Or Castrol Classic.

(We do'nt have Valvoline VR1 20w-50 in South Africa)

PJ Nel

I asked Castrol why they don't sell Classic in the US. They didn't say but you may find their response interesting.

"Thank you for contacting Castrol North America.

Castrol Classic XL 20W-50 is an overseas Castrol product not available for purchase through Castrol US.

Classic cars with flat tappet cam engines represent a special case in regards to engine oil lubrication. These engines have valve train configurations that require elevated levels of ZDDP (zinc dialkyl dithiophosphate) anti-wear for proper protection of the flat tappet camshaft and its lifters. Insufficient concentration of ZDDP will lead to premature wear and failure of the camshaft and lifters. Current GF-4 and GF-5 fuel economy grade engine oils are designed for extended life of the catalytic convertors in modern passenger cars and have industry mandated limitations on the amount of sulfur and phosphorus within the oil.

In the US market, only Castrol EDGE 5W-50 has extra zinc (1250 ppm) so to provide extra engine wear protection to help protect flat tappet cam engines in classic cars. This engine oil is a full synthetic, has excellent cold temperature properties, and has a high temperature viscosity (SAE 50) that is suitable for use in many classic car applications.

Castrol always recommends following the guidelines of the engine manufacturer for the recommended oil (i.e. SAE grade, API rating and manufacturer specifications) specific to your application.
Please consult your mechanic/engine rebuilder as to the suitability of the 5W-50 viscosity grade in your engine.

Thank you again for contacting Castrol, we value your patronage!

Castrol Consumer Relations"

Tim


Timothy Burchfield

Thanks for sharing that note on Castrol Edge 5W-50 Tim.

Frank

TF 1414

Frank Cronin

OK guys I changed my oil and I went with the VR1 and used the additive. I posted this same question on two other forums and I had a wide range of ideas from guys. Some were saying if you use VR1 you do not need ZDDP additive, others saying they use the additive, some saying you can use any oil with no additive. However, the majority said VR1 is the way to go. Some said you can have to much ZDDP. From the research I did on this I dont believe that is true in the sense of it being bad for the car, the environment yes. I appreciate everyone's ideas and opinions, thanks for the help.

Rich
Rich King TD 8732

Our type of engines need between 1200-1600 ppm of ZDDP. VR1 has this already. The one you want is the regular dino oil, not the synthetic stuff.

You're far better off buying an oil that has been formulated to work properly than buying a low zinc oil and adding your own. Oil companies spend millions of dollars figuring out what compounds are needed and at what ratios they work best. Better to use their solution than to dump a random amount of 3rd party product into the mix.

I also wouldn't put too much stock in what the engines used when they were new. Back then the engines were often rebuilt every 30-40,000 miles. At 12,000 miles you were supposed to remove the sump and clean the sludge out. Those oils may have smelled good but they were far inferior to what is available now.
Steve Simmons

If you read responsible trade publications the only engines that MAY make use of oils with ZDDP levels above the current standard are performance cams in high reving flat tappet engines.

Current oil formulations meet or exceed the performance requirements of or stock XPAG engines.

Regards, Tom
tm peterson

I love it when a group of like minded people consider a question, do their research and come up with definitive answers. That is what cooperation and assistance on a forum should be. So to sum up the general consensus the definitive answer to "Should I use an oil with ZDDP added" the answer is Yes, No and Maybe.

Tim
Timothy Burchfield

Is too much ZDDP harmful or just a waste of money.
Peter Dahlquist

Peter, here's one take on the issue: http://www.motorweek.org/features/goss_garage/too_much_zinc_in_your_oil

Tim
Timothy Burchfield

Peter

too much is harmfull - it should not exceed 1400 ppm.

See - http://www.mossmotoring.com/oil-for-classic-british-sports-cars/
W_Mueller

Too much is definitely a bad thing. Motor oils are carefully blended to give the correct, beneficial amount of each ingredient. If any of them was unneeded then it would not be in the mix to begin with. There is a lot of science that goes into this stuff, and only the guys who are highly educated in such matters can possibly understand it all.

Still, I'm surprised there aren't guys out there blending their own oil packages and posting videos about how much better and cheaper it is. ;)
Steve Simmons

Steve Simmons: Why not use synthetic oil? Just curious.

Thanks,

Jim
J Barry

Synthetic oils are superior to dino oils, but in the case of our cars I don't personally feel they are the best choice. First, they cost a lot more. The cost alone is not an issue to me since I want to use the best product regardless of price. The problem as I see it is that our engines run a lot less efficiently than those in modern cars, so the oil gets dirty a lot faster. For this reason we still need to change our oil at 3000 miles (some go to 5,000) rather than at 8,000 to 12,000 like a lot of cars do now. So when you drain your expensive synthetic oil at 3-5,000 miles, you're throwing away perfectly usable (and expensive) oil. Dino oils don't last as long before breaking down, even if they are clean. So to me they make more sense in an old car.

There is also the highly debated issue of leaks, some saying that synthetics tend to leak a lot more since they are more slippery and run thinner at the same temperatures than dino oil.

One last point, which is also debated, is that dino and synthetic oils react differently to rubber and cork seals, and contain different detergent packages. If you have a high mileage engine that has run dino oil its entire life, many say that changing to a synthetic can cause leaks and also may knock loose deposits that the old oil didn't clean. These deposits could potentially clog oil passages.

These are my opinions of course, and there is more information about it on the web (both good and bad) than anyone could read in a lifetime.
Steve Simmons

I have used VR1 20-50 in both my TD and my AH100M for years and I’m very happy with the results. That’s all I will ever use. David..
David Honness

Thanks Steve. Good information.

Jim
J Barry

Dino oil is a term I'm not familiar with so I Googled it. I also checked out both links mentioned above but couldn't see any reference to the nature of the harm that too much ZDDP causes to uor engines. I used plenty of Engine Lube when I assembled the cam and roller lifters so hopefully both will be protected when she first fires up. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Dino oil = oil made from dead dinosaurs. ;) Not synthetic.

"Too much" is subjective I suppose. Obviously 100% ZDDP is too much, and 0% is too little. There is an optimal amount, which gives the protection it is designed to give while allowing the base oil as well as other compounds in the blend a chance to do their jobs as close to optimally as well. The chemists who design these blends seem to have those optimal amounts figured out for each given application.
Steve Simmons

While we are on the subject:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYkg0oDUXs8

Tim
Timothy Burchfield

I was reading this thread last night and this AM a friend sent me this. It was interesting from both a historical prospective and shows complexity of science required. Enjoy!

One item caught my attention. I remember back in the day when I would get wax build up using Castrol. Do not get get that with modern oils.

https://www.cycleworld.com/what-are-differences-between-synthetic-and-petroleum-oils
JWP Policastro

This thread was discussed between 25/05/2019 and 31/05/2019

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