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MG TD TF 1500 - TF Engine Bay Heat

Anyone ever come up with a good way to pull heat out of the engine bay on a TF, On a hot day you could cook a turkey in there. A Louvered bonnet would help, but then where to find one. I have a pair of, slightly bent, bonnets on the shelf, but no one around here punches louvers. PJ
PJ Jennings

How about removing the side panels. That's what Mort does to his TD. Bud
Bud Krueger

Is the heat in your car more than other tf's ? How hot is it in there ??
SPW Wincze

Fit an MGB type 7 blade fan.
Dave H
Dave Hill

I have Jet-Hot ceramic coating on the manifold . I don't know if that is the reason that the TF does not seem too hot under the bonnet-or if it is because I live in Maine.
J K Barter

I think you have all you need Paul. My idea was to use Side Panel Louvers.....and install them in the Bonnet. There are two...frames or stiffeners on each side of the Bonnet, supporting the Latch hardware. I believe the Side Panel Louvers would provide the correct Louver Spacing to work with the Frames. So from the Windscreen...you would have 3 Louvers, then a blank space, then 9 more Louvers. I think it would look great. Perhaps like a 'period modification' on a works vehicle. Or a Club Racer's Hillclimber. And that space between the Louvers...well it just begs for a Leather Strap across the Bonnet! Someone with good Photoshop skills could likely produce a picture of Louvers prior to commitment. I like personalizing a car...and yet being able to return to Stock. You have a perfect Bonnet now...that can always be reinstalled.
The Panel Beaters I have contacted can't work with that Frame on the Bonnet. It would have to be cut out...Louvers cut...then the Frame welded back in. But that is another method.
Here's several pictures I've collected.


Mike
TF-8257


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PJ;
If you have a hand Hydraulic press you could purchase a die and roll your own.

See here;
Not cheep.

https://www.mittlerbros.com/mittler-bros/louver-press-kit.html

Jim B.
JA Benjamin

I left England, for Canada, in 1965 and have had a deep affection for "Wheeler Dealers" even since I lucked onto one of their episodes. I was recently watching one where Ed was refurbishing a Triumph roadster and he blew me away when he totally removed a heat issue by using a "waterless coolant" in place of antifreeze. I checked online and found Evans Waterless Coolant! A little expensive but good up to 385 degeesF. Ed even took off the radiator cap at full operating temp and no explosive discharge. I plan on using this stuff when everything is at optimum operating efficiency as a leak at the beginning of my 54 TF's renewed life would be expensive.
Best regards
Rod Murray
Rodney G Murray

Bud, I couldn't remove the side panels, even if it was easy, which it isn't on a TF, it would make it look like it belongs on a track not the highway. But thanks for the idea.
Mike, if I could find someone to punch in the louvers, removing and replacing the braces would be no issue, I know how to work sheet metal. I had a customized 47 Chevy and had 62 crown louvers punched in the hood up in Kansas, but that fellow isn't with us anymore. When I restored my TF, I leaded in some areas that had slight defects, no Bondo, lead. Just to give you the idea I can work metal. If I had the punches, I'd put the louvers in myself, too expensive to buy a setup just for one job. I'm going to check with a guy in Tulsa that does custom cars and I've seen louvers on a couple cars he's done. Thanks for all the pictures, that TF in the barn isn't for sale is it? ------ What am I saying, that's all I need, another one. LOL. PJ
PJ Jennings

Obviously heat in the engine bay causes heat in the footwells, which is an issue in hot weather driving.
Part way thru a trip to Indiana in 102 deg heat we stopped at a Home Depot and bought the pictured items and fabricated a air induction system in the parking lot. I worked quite well in lowering the temp in the footwell to tolerable level. At least the airflow felt cooler.

Cost about $8.00

Bet that hood louver job cost a pretty penny,

colin stafford

You can drive a TF with the rear latches undone. This creates a small gap (like a single louver) at the rear which will help a little.
The biggest cooling improvement I ever saw was when I had the radiator chemically cleaned out. Huge difference.

Matthew.
M Magilton

Do not go with the waterless coolant. Internal temps go sky high- it is too thick and doesn't have enough thermal capacity to remove heat well. Go to the archives and read the arguments.
JIM N

I and my local friend have had no problems what so ever with heat in our TF and TD. OK will live in Scotland but there have been plenty of very warm days and we both have driven in heavy traffic. But we have both had our radiators reconditioned with modern uprated cores. These were remarkably cheap at just over £120 each. I have an electric fan fitted and the only time I have seen it come on is a few minutes after the engine has been switch off after a long run.

Cheers

Jan T
J Targosz

I'm not surprised that is the case in Scotland Jan. Down here in Cambridgeshire it is a little different. I have a fully rebuilt engine, all new rebuilt cooling system, electric fan and 7 blade fan. My feet get really toasty on a hot day and the underbonnet temp seems very high. The 7 blade fan made a small difference, but I really fitted it to help the alternator in a dynamo case to keep cool.
Dave H
Dave Hill

Hi Dave,

Where is the heat coming from? If your feet are toasting is it possible the exhaust pipe is too close to the floor boards or maybe a heat shield is needed? I have an original mild steel exhaust system which is half aluminium paint and half rust. I wonder if modern, shiny stainless ones reflect heat into the car.

Cheers

Jan
J Targosz

I don't have a heat problem in the car because I insulated everywhere under the carpet with a foil backed insulation, it's just in the engine bay I would like a little more air flow. My radiator has a new core and the block was cooked during rebuild, the cooling system is clean.
Here's what happened the other day, I was on a 60 mile trip heading back home on a 90+ degree day and everything was fine, I pulled off to stop for a while and when I started back on the road the engine had a vibration in it for about a mile, I related this to heat soak because after a mile and up to speed the vibration went away and the engine ran smooth as silk the rest of the way home. This is why I would like to find a way to let some of the engine bay heat escape, louvers in the bonnet would be a big help. Saying that, I would never have louvers cut on the bonnet that's on the car now, it would be another one I have on the shelf. Thanks guys for all the input, very much appreciated! PJ
PJ Jennings

I'm sure the exhaust is a contributor - its a stainless steel sports system and is quite close to the floor. I have some insulation under the carpet and overmats. The exhaust manifold is just painted in aluminium heat resistant paint. I agree with the suggestion of ceramic coating it, but the cost would go a long way towards a tubular manifold, which I would prefer.
Dave H
Dave Hill

Dave, what does the tubular manifold look like and who sells them? PJ
PJ Jennings

Paul,

Have you considered having your manifold JetHot coated? That will definitely eliminate some of your engine compartment heat...and look nice too.

Gene
Gene Gillam

PJ. See Steve Baker's website in the UK. I think you would call it a tubular header.
Dave H
Dave Hill

You can make excellent louvres by hand. You need to make a former and punch - aluminium is ideal since it will not bruise steel. You can knock the Louvre using a hammer. The key is to cut slots using a very thin disc in an angle grinder before forming the louvres. It does take some skill since unlike with a proper press tool there is no automatic placing of the louvres and careful measuring is required. I recently used this method to make a front apron for my MG J2. The louvres on this get progressively bigger and form a triangle. A couple of metal workers were able to cut louvres but they were either long or short with no inbetweens. My efforts were so successful I went on to make the two air vents under the wings of my TF out of non rusting aluminium.

Jan T
J Targosz

Gene,There is a fellow that jet coats manifolds in the Tulsa area, saw his work at a show last summer and they look very professional, even does marine manifolds, this winter I'm going to contact him and see if he'll do mine. At the time I talked to him he only did them in grey or black, but said he's expanding the color selection and will include silver. He will do inside and out. He said I will have to polish the inside if I want a smooth finish, which is no problem, I have the tools to do that. PJ
PJ Jennings

Paul,

I have mine JetHot'd...very reasonable and they do inside as well as outside and have a lot of colors. I had my header done as a bright silver, they did a matte finish on my other manifold so it more resembled the original aluminum.

They say it will reduce engine compartment temps by 20% so I'm considering having it done on my MGA which runs a bit warm when I'm running the A/C.

It's also guaranteed for life...I had them redo my header...just paid shipping.

I just contacted them today about an MGA header...here's their response:

"the cost to coat the MG manifold in Classic Polish is $125.00 plus return shipping. The lead time is 7-10 business days"

They also coat it inside and out for that price.

https://www.jet-hot.com/classic-polish

Gene
Gene Gillam

Thanks Gene, I'll check with this guy in Tulsa first and see what the outcome would be, as it has to be in a silver finish, plus the quality of his work. If I'm not satisfied and have doubts, I'll contact Jet-Hot. I'm hoping to get it done local where I can hand deliver it, hate to send something like this through the mail, being a little unsure of the mail handlers anymore, I've had two broken items delivered in the past year. PJ
PJ Jennings

Good luck, Paul.
Keep us informed.
Gene Gillam

Any quality powder coating shop can do the job. The key is "quality". This picture was taken this summer but the thermal coating was done 12 years ago. Unfortunatly he closed up his shop and retired last spring. We have 3 other shops in my area. Two that I have heard a lot of bad stuff about their work. A newer shop that opened up about 5 years ago I have heard fair reviews about and will most likely be the place I go if I ever need any more powder work done. The lighter areas shown here are dust from sitting on the shelf while I was doing the rebuild.


L E D LaVerne

This thing generates some serious heat. While you are cooking your turkey I can have two done along with the pies and still be frying bacon for tomorrows breakfast. The water temp is a steady 85 C when running with it getting up to 90 C while running 75 -80 mph and pulling long grades in 100 F plus temps.
After a shut down the brass rods I use to prop open the bonnet can only be touched long enough to get the bonnet open. Short of modifying the side panels and removing them during the summer, I think a large electric fan mounted perhaps where the access panel is would keep it a lot cooler after shut down. I suspect your "vibration" is most likely a vapor lock problem. Opening the bonnet on shut down will most likely relieve your problem or just use the choke when you take off until it smooths out. Just my thoughts.


L E D LaVerne

I think your right LaVerne about the vapor lock problem, just too much heat soak after shut down.
If anyone is interested, I found out who the guy is I talked to at a show that does thermal coatings. I thought they were a mom and pop type organization, I was wrong, they do all kinds of commercial coatings, thermal just being one of them. Here's the contact info. if interested.
Tompsons Metal Coatings
Owasso, Oklahoma
918-857-4032

http://thompsonsmetalcoatings.com
PJ Jennings

Sorry about the link, drop the http://.

www.thompsonsmetalcoatings.com
PJ Jennings

Mike Brand,

Thank you for posting the photos of louvred bonnets. I am also leaning that way. Another example of a TF with this treatment is the 2011 race car of Peter Edney. The attached photo is from a distance but hopefully you will be able to see louvres at the front of the bonnet that face forward as air intakes while those at the back are on the exhaust manifold side only and face backwards as air outlets.

Although the front facing louvres may be effective I do think I would do that to my own car. I was thinking of having new bonnet panels made in aluminium with louvres and keeping the originals intact. I also like the idea of the weight reduction.

Kind regards,
Michael


M R Calvert

LaVerne, I have often had the same thought of fitting some kind of "bilge blower" inside the lower TF vent on the carb and exhaust side for extracting hot air in low speed running and after shutoff. I did fit one of Barrie Jones' heat shields and it has helped somewhat with the vapor locking. Biggest issue with that is crap ethanol gasoline.
Jack Long

Colin, your car, your mod.. do what you choose to it..I have to say that is the ugliest thing I have seen done to a TD.
Regards, Tom
tm peterson

If you cut louvres in your bonnet top you may need to make a shield for the distributor, plugs and coil to prevent water falling on them. The reason for the design of the central hinge is to prevent water drips onto the engine. I don't think louvres on the exhaust side only would look good.

Jan T
J Targosz

Jan,

Thanks for your observation. I had not thought of that, but I think there are a number of ways around it.

There is a strong tradition of louvred bonnets among cars of this design era. Attached is a picture of one example, the SS100. It is certainly a significant modification to a T series, but I do not think it looks out of place.

Kind regards,
Michael


M R Calvert

There is an article in the April 2017 edition of TTT2 in the series entitled “The Manchester XPAG Tests”, (ref page 12). The article looks at the issue of “Overheating & the Hot Restart problem” and the how the volatility of modern fuels contributes to this problem.

Under the sub heading “What can be done to address this problem” one of the four dot points is “Increase the heat removal from under the bonnet”. They go on to say “One important point to remember is that hot air rises. Any fans, ducts or baffles intended to move cooler air through the engine bay should encourage this, not ‘fight it’. Blow cold air in at the bottom of the engine compartment, extract hot air from the top”.

With no outlets for air above the louvres in the side engine panels the design of the T series, particularly the TF which has minimal clearance at the sides and above the engine, is less than ideal when measured against the above criterion.

For those who are prepared to make visual modifications to their car, bonnet louvres obviously are a good fit to the theory in the Manchester article.

Michael
M R Calvert

Jack, you might consider trying some computer fans. They can be had for next to nothing used and draw very little current while moving a lot of air. I have a couple in the bin from some trashed PC's I may play with. The idea came from Dave DuBois. The 7 blade MGB fan moves plenty of air when running even at idle but the heat gets carried away after shut down.

I tested out Colin's air conditioner method this summer but with some dryer pvc flex hose and a couple of cloths pins holding it in place. I'd say it is an improvement if the foot area.


L E D LaVerne

This thread was discussed between 19/09/2017 and 27/09/2017

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