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MG TD TF 1500 - tub to frame fasteners

A question came up on the bolts that attach the tub to the frame.

I have found reference of 5/16 x 3" carriage bolts x 2, and 5/16 x 2 3/4" carriage bolts X 2.

I also show carriage bolts 1/4" x 2 1/4 x 14.

I am assuming the 3 Inch went from the rear of the tub timber through the frame. Unsure where all the others went.

What was used for the metal rail of the tub to the frame? (Pictured).

Looking for what was original.

I will add these to the fastener list and update it.

Bruce Cunha

The front two holes are empty except one hole is use on late TDs by the hoop. The rear two are hex bolts, 2 flats, springs and a nut. The rear may be a carriage bolt. I think TD 4834 had carriage but don’t know their about originality. Although all the bolts on that had been meticulously saved by POs while the car was a basketcase. But I have also seen hex bolts. Good luck finding a WW carriage bolt in the length we need.
W A Chasser

TFs,metal rail of the tub to frame,3/8" BSF, often 'Rubery Owen' brand.

Cheers
Rob Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").
Rob Grantham

Anyone have the length and size of the back bolts?

Chris says no carriage bolts. The list I posted above was on a fastener list that I picked up when I was compiling mine. I did not think carriage bolts were correct, and did not add them to my list.
Bruce Cunha

Mr. Cunha:

In your latest post - you asked if anyone had the "...length ad size of the back bolts?"

I note that no one has answered yet - at least on the BBS - so I went out and removed one of mine - and took picture of it - which hopefully will be attached below. This bolt came with the new TD body tub which I had ordered and received from NTG in the UK a few years ago.

It is 3/8" in diameter, just slightly under 3 inches long (from under the hex head to the threaded end of the bolt), and the thread pitch is 16 tpi.

I have no idea whether that is what was "original" (i.e. originally installed on this car - TD 16504) or not? When installed with the nut and washers and the bolt is tightened up - there are about 3 threads showing. I have a shim between the tub and the frame of about 3/16" thickness made from rubber-ized cork gasket material.

If you are looking for information - in terms of what bolt length will work - then I would suggest that the above will answer your question. If you are looking for what was originally installed on a TD - then I would suggest that someone with an un-molested car should be able to answer your question - if they can get the bolt out to measure it (but that's not to say that such was installed on every TD?).

Hope this helps.

Charlie King
(TD 16504)
C G King

Thanks Charles. That givs us a place to start. My goal it to gather as much of what was original and this bolt is one I did not find yet.

Bruce Cunha

Mr. Cunha:

I see that the picture that I attempted to upload - didn't? I will try again - if it doesn't work this time - I will give up.

I wish you good luck in your quest to establish what was "original" for this bolt. However - in reading some recent - and not so recent - posts about things "original" and not "original" to TDs and TFs - it would appear that the only "originality" that one can really count on is that the people on the assembly line used whatever they had available or could readily source - that would work - at the time - particularly when it came to "consumables" such as bolts, nuts, washers, perhaps even paint (?), etc.

I'm afraid that this "standard" of "originality" is what I am applying to my restoration of TD 16504 - particularly in this "time of covid".

Charlie King
TD 16504
C G King

Thanks Charles.

The story of the factory using anything at hand does have some background to it, but I also think it is a story that seems to get a lot of mileage. In 1950, MG had at least two cars coming off the production line, as seen in this still from the Video Safety Fast. It is also very likely that parts from other cars (MG?) were used. The addition of the extra bracket on the back of the frame of later TD's is an indication of this.

Like all companies, I am sure MG had contracts for parts. For bolts, we know they used a variety of manufacturers as documented by the names on the heads of the bolts. Like today's cars. I imagine each production station had bins with the parts that they used at that station.

I a reasonably certain, that like other manufacturers, over time, vendors changed depending on pricing.

I have documented a couple of parts that changed over the production that have not been documented in any of the "experts books"

There was a change in the tool box lid somewhere during production. Early lids had "Fingers" under the hinge that kept the lid from folding down. Later TD's have pretty much a piano hinge.

At the back of the inner dash, under the Speedo and Tach, there is a brace. This brace is not present in the very early TD;s The bracket shows up sometime in the 1950's. By 1952, the bracket is changed to a smaller bracket.

I can't say this was something MG changed, or the vendor changed, or they changed vendors.

Bruce Cunha

This thread was discussed between 07/10/2020 and 13/10/2020

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