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MG TD TF 1500 - Wiring Harness/loom color

I think I have this figured out. Chris Cooper's TD web page says the Wiring harness has yellow Tracer stripes. My Moss harness has red. So, I looked at various manufacturers online. Here is what I found out.

The early harness/loom, for TD's without turn signals used red tracer thread. The cars with turn signals uses the yellow tracer thread.

I found this by looking at the various manufacturers and suppliers. Those that list the two different harnesses have red for no turn signal and yellow for those with turn signals.

In Chris's gallery, all cars that should have turn signals have yellow tracer. I could not find any pictures of wiring on the cars in the gallery that do not would not have turn signals.

This would fit with a quote from Bruce Sharman that Chris has on his wiring page.

I have original samples of wiring harnesses in my “museum” for want of a better description. It appears from our samples and research that Vic Longden carried out that most Lucas harnesses started out black. As an electrical change was made in the circuitry, then a coloured trace was added to the outer braid. When another change occurred another trace was added. We believe that this aided the car manufacturer (for example MG) identify the harnesses and ensure they were fitted correctly to the correct model. This was not necessarily at “official” model change, but could occur midway through a production run or could be for changes in the circuitry for export models.

I am going to drop Bruce an Email to get his input on this.

Does anyone have information that would differ from this? As a wiring harness is a big deal to add once a car is built, I want to make sure I have this correct.
Bruce Cunha

The issue continues.

LaVern says the early TD he is working on had a red tracer in what he feels is the original harness.

Bruce Sharmin wrote me and he sticks to saying the TD harness always had a yellow tracer.

I have written to Auto Spark in the UK and British Wiring in the US (Both produce a red tracer harness for the early TD) to get their input.
Bruce Cunha

I would also write to Paul Vermont at Vintage Wiring Harness, Melbourne Australia. He has long experience with his Z Magnettes and supplying Aussie MG's.
M Magilton

I posted on other MG web sites and have asked to get pictures of any original harnesses along with the car number.

It appears this is another of those TD issues we periodically come across as to what is/was original.

We should be able to come to a consensus on this one.

If any of you have your old original harness in the spares bin (or on your car), I would appreciate a picture of the harness covering.
Bruce Cunha

More disagreement. British Wiring says Red. They said that was based on original harness.

When looking at my factory pictures, I have three TDs that you can see the wiring harness. One is a steel wheel TD. So very early. One has the cast generator pulley. So probably before July 1951, and the other has the pressed generator pulley but has the vertical oil filter. Before Feb 1952.

All have lite tracing on the wires. Red would not show up this lite.

La Vern has an original harness from the early TD he is restoring. It has a tracer that is faded, but is closer to red than yellow.

It is going to take more color photos to come up with a good idea of what was original on the early TD.





Bruce Cunha

Here are the other two pictures.






Bruce Cunha

Thought I would give what update I have. So far, I have not received any other photos of the original wiring looms.

The Australian wiring manufacturer says he used original harnesses to pattern his. He says the tracer was always yellow. This is the information Chris' has on his web page. https://www.mg-cars.org.uk/mgtd/mgtd_details_wiring.htm

Auto Spark in the UK(They supply the majority of the TD parts suppliers) says they used original TD harnesses for their pattern and the early TD had a Red Tracer and the later, with turn signal, was more of a copper color.

Factory photos clearly show a lite tracer in all the cars that I can see the wiring in.

I corresponded with Anders Clausager. He said he has not come across any information on Tracer color, but the parts manual only shows 3 harnesses. RHD, LHD, and the later LHD with turn signals. (I surmised that there may have been different wiring harnesses for different countries.)

So, for now, I cannot say what is/was original for the Tracer color for the Early TD harness.

Bruce Cunha

LHD early regulator
RHD early regulator

LHD late regulator
RHD late regulator

LHD Late regulator, foot dipper
RHD Late regulator, foot dipper

LHD Late regulator, foot dipper, turn signals
RHD Late regulator, foot dipper, turn signals.

Bill Chasser
TD-4834
W A Chasser

My late TF FWIW.

M Magilton

Do you think there could be something in the wiring that turns the yellow slightly orange, making it look like faded red? That is what I think I am seeing on mine.
M Magilton

Your faded color looks very much like the faded color from La Vern's early TD. Your observation may be correct. Perhaps yellow faded to that more straw color.

Bill. According to British Wiring, the two different regulators did not have a different harness. LHD and RHD did, and RHD

In looking in the 1958 parts manual. they list three harness, but interestingly, they say the first harness starts at TD 8142.

I would agree that the foot dipper would have changed the wiring, so it is interesting they don't show that many different harnesses.

Another item that some of you may be able to clarify. For Australia, I was told they had a pulsing brake light on early cars. I have never heard of this, but I do see harnesses that say. "Wiring Loom-Braided Dash Dip + Relay Indicators" this is for TDs prior to turn signals. After turn signals it says "Wiring Loom-Braided Dash Dip + Flashers".

I don't know what the "relay indicators" were.

Bruce Cunha

You mean a system where the brake lights pulse on-and-off? Never heard of that one. I would be surprised if early TD's here were any different to Home Market cars. Just Aussie fitted tyres and battery to support Aussie business.
M Magilton

I should have said Flashing instead of Pulsing.

That is the term that Bruce Sharman of Bygone Spares and Restorations (an Australian company that makes TD wiring looms) told me. Here is what it says on his website for MG TD wiring harness. https://www.bygonesparesandrestorations.com/

1949-52 MG TD RF 95 Regulator, DB 10 Flashing Brakelights

Bruce runs the company saying the early TD had a yellow tracer.

That sounded odd to me also, but as I posted. I don't know what the term Wiring Loom-Braided Dash Dip + Relay Indicators is either. This is used by UK companies for the early TD loom.
Bruce Cunha

I think that is to do with the shared tail light globe on the TD, Y and Z-Magnette. They only flash when the indicator is on.
M Magilton

Can you clarify that? This would have been prior to turn signals. Indicator?
Bruce Cunha

I wanted to update this thread.

Today, I got to go over TD5779 (January 1951). It was put in a garage in 1962 with 40,000 miles on it for an engine rebuild and a new paint job. It never was painted and left in pieces.

The wiring harness on this has Red/bronze tracer thread in the harness. This is the second older TD that has this color.

Autospark in the UK says red is correct. An Australian company says yellow is correct. Factory photos show the thread as a lite color. Red would not show up light on a black and white photo.

My conclusion is that Early US TDs without turn signals, and with dash dipper switch and 9 pin regulators had a red/copper tracer thread.

I cannot say this is correct for later cars, or for cars that were produced for other parts of the world.


Bruce Cunha

This thread was discussed between 27/09/2021 and 12/10/2021

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