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Triumph TR3 - NUMBERS MATCHING

I'm looking at a tr3 that has the vin tag taken off the car. In Washington State, they put a new vin tag on unless you can verify that the removed tag goes with the car. Is there any other numbers ie: body#s, engine #s,Heritage Certificate, or another location on the car with the vin# to verify that the tag goes with the car?
Regards,
benji

benji,
the tag for the chassis[vin] number was missing on the 59 tr3 i bought.
i sent the body and engine numbers to the british motor industry heritage trust and they provided me the correct chassis[vin]number.
they will send you a certified copy of the factory record on your tr. i think it cost $60.00 [ 2 years ago]. it was more if you didn't have the chassis number.
payne
payne

The car doesn't have a title? Here, the title would have a VIN number, and you could use that number on a reproduction plate. Engine could have been changed, and the numbers never matched exactly, as far as I know. Might be a pattern there, someone know the normal difference between VIN and engine? How about transmission #?

There were one or 2 brass body number tags on the firewall from the factory, but I don't know much about their relationship to the car #.

It might be to your advantage to know the details of the (few) differences in model year changes before you stamp and register. I've seen a lot of TR3's with TR4 engines, or carbs, or valve covers. The first 2 letters of the engine # will tell you what series, TR3/3a (TS), 3B(?), or 4(CT).

In short, I don't think the VIN is stamped anywhere else but on the tag that's lost. And if you don't know if the engine and transmission are original, the body tags may be the only thing left - differential, maybe?

I'm just babbling as usual, so maybe Don can give some better answers. I'm interested in knowing more.
Tom

There are 2 brass body number plates on all sidescreen TRs. They are located above the battery. The upper one starting with EB is painted. It was put on by Mulliners who built, assembled and painted the bodies which were then shipped to S-T in Canley near Coventry for final assembly. It was here that the lower brass plate was attached. It is not painted. There may or may not be a relationship between these numbers.

I have sent you an e-mail with photos from my 1958 TR3A as it is now. I also have attached a photo of the lower brass plate which I removed and replaced in 1987 because the original one got eaten away by the battery acid.

There is no relationship between these numbers and the VIN number (TS xxxxx L) or LO. You can "guess" what these may have been if they are original. Also there is no exact relationship between these brass body number plates and the TS number on the VIN. The reason for this was that the bodies were not assembled in sequence. The bodies were pained in groups. Say a lot of bodies on one day were painted red. Then the next day another colour. Then they were shipped to Canley. They did not use FIFO (First IN - First Out). At assembly, they would take the bodies that came in last, if they were closer and the colour they wanted to assemble was right. Also, if the sales asked for more red ones, they would assemble a batch of red ones and this way, the brass body numbers got jumbled out of sequence.

If your engine is the original engine, there is a possibility that the VIN number will be about 400 lower than the engine number. This is because S-T supplied 400 engines to Morgan which they put into the Morgans during the TR2 assembly period. Clean off the dirt, rust and grease from the flat boss just to ther rear of the coil on the LHS of you engine and with a bright light, you will be able to read the engine number.

If you assume that the engine is the original one for your car, ask the Heritage Center what the TS number (VIN) should be for that engine number. That will be correct and the document you will get is the proof that you might need.

http://www.heritage-motor-centre.co.uk/archive/certificate_index.html
hmcarch@heritage-motor-centre.co.uk

There is a fellow in Ventura,Calif. who has hundreds of TR numbers on an EXCEL spreadsheet and maybe he can help by comparing all the numbers you supply to him. Jon can be reached at jhktr3a AT pacbell DOT net.

As stated above, the engine etc. might have been changed. But also, I have changed the lower brass body number plate. Who would ever know if you decided to stamp a brand new VIN plate (called a Commission Number plate in England) with a TS number 400 lower than your engine number. The number should read as follows TS xxxxx L. The L is for Left Hand Drive. If your car left the factory with an overdrive, the VIN plate would have been stamped TS xxxxx LO, the O meaning Overdrive. If you have an overdrive now, add the O to the VIN plate.
Don Elliott

benji - I re-read your original question above. Is it realy a small-mouth TR3 ? If so, I'm quoting from Bill Piggotts' book on page 111. For bodyshell numbers between 840631 to 848106, the TS number (VIN) should be between TS 7301 to TS 15550 - approx July 1955 to January 1957.

Shell numbers 970816 to 986625 relate to VIN TS15501 to TS 31300 between Jan 1957 to May 1958. Mine is 983670 for TS 27489 LO built Feb 14, 1958. My engine number is TS 27789 E (exactly 400 numbers apart). You could try to interpolate between these numbers and come pretty close to the correct VIN number if Jon in Ventura can't get you any closer.

Let us know what you find out and what you decide. If you have a later TR3A, I can quote you other numbers from Bill's book.
Don Elliott

Sorry for the late response. The holiday season has kept me busy.
Upon further conversations with the seller, I found that the original owner removed and lost all the tags and only had the vin tag present. I just couldn't pay the money for the car. Instead, I bought a 1967 Chev Impala SS Convertible. I'm thinkin' I can use it to tow my 71' tr6 to car shows. (Let's see how much money I've got to dump on this car!!)
I truly thank all of you for your expertise on this subject. This BBS is great!!
Regards,
Benji
benji

This thread was discussed between 30/11/2006 and 22/12/2006

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