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Triumph TR6 - Burning Oil - how much is too much

I am burning a fair amount of oil and I'm sure that it is from my valve seals. But what I would like to know is how much of a rush issue is it. I'm burning about a liter for every 700km. Besides being bad for the enviroment, is it bad for the car?
T.Grant
T. Grant

T,
a litre (slightly more than a quart) every 700 km (right at 420 miles) is excessive, especially if it's from your 'valve seals' since I don't believe the TR6 HAS valve stem seals. This would indicated, if it IS from the valve to guide clearance, that you've excessive space there.

I submit that perhaps you've a leak as well as some oil bypass at the rings?

Seems a lot more likely to me with all that consumption.

Unlikely it will harm the engine any more than it already is but you're right, the air doesn't like it.

Jim
Jim Deatsch

Another source of excess oil consumption can be the valve cover breather, especially if you have an aftermarket cover with no baffle plate over the breather take-off. If that's the case entrained oil will get sucked right to the carbs. I ended up making a little separator that's mounted where the carbon cannister used to be. A bit more than 1/2 pint is collected every 200 miles. It's then poured back in.
Brent B

Hi

If the car is actualy "burning" that much oil you must have a continuous blue cloud on acceleration at the very least. And fouled plugs? Is that the case?

Won't cause the car to quit unless its accompanied by other noises and as far as too much. If the City gives you a Tax rebate for Mosquito Larvae control you may be a bit past too much :)

Engine does not use valve seals but if guides are very worn will cause the same. They are replaceable during head rebuild.

If you don't have the equipment I would suggest you have a garage do a full compression test. Tell them you want to determine if its rings or the head causing smoke. And ask them to write down the findings. They will know what to do. Its about an hour job so $50 $60 bucks and you know exactly the engine condition and what your in for.

Check out what Brent and Jim have commented on and remember they do leak and a couple of drops here and there adds up to a quart real fast.

Bill
Bill Brayford

Iam having a similar problem but it only burns oil after decending a hill with the throttle closed and only after it is really warmed up. The head was just redone as I thought this was the culprit. Also had valve seals installed.Iam guessing rings now but I thought it would burn oil all the time if it were rings. Any thoughts?

Bill
BILL WATT

Bill - In your case I think the high intake vacuum with the throttle off while decending is sucking oil down the valves (intake). When warmed up the clearances are bigger and the oil's thinner, so it flows there easier. I'd either not be concerned about it, or go up a notch on oil viscosity.
Brent B

Hi Bill,

I only have blue smoke when I start the car ie. the first 30 sec after a cold start. I don't have fouled plugs and the car runs without any trouble except for the fact that I seem to go through a fair amount of oil. I sometimes have a smell on my cloths similar to when you have just finished mowing the law, but apart from that, this is the extent of my problems. I think I'll take you're sugestion and have a compression test done to see where the problem lies. At this point, I don't want to fix it if it ain't broke sort of thing because the engine is running very well. I just want to ensure that I'm not heading for a rather large repair bill down the line.
Ted
t.grant

I suspect guides from the description. As far as the test goes, it would not be a bad idea to have a leak down test done in addition to the compression test.
SteveP

HI Ted

Yep guides and add Steves suggestion for the leak down little more time and cost but very accurate.

Not a crises by any means quite common :)

Bill
Bill Brayford

What does your garage floor look like?

Rick O.
Rick Orthen

Hi Rick,

My garage floor has the odd spot of oil, but I don't think this is the souce of my problem, no puddle anyway.
Ted
T. Grant

Hi Ted
If you drive along at say 60mph, lift off the accelerator until you slow down to say 40 then accelerate and you see a cloud of blue smoke behind the car your valve guides are worn. If you are driving along at a steady speed, then accelerate and you see a cloud of blue smoke the rings are worn. If the engine is all the same age it is hard to imagine that the rings will be worn without the valve guides being worn & vice versa.
The garage floor is a bit of a red herring as even a quarter of a pint looks a helluva mess on the floor
Ron
R. Algie

Hey Bill,
I guess from the second read that it could very well be rings. Not completely worn out, but to the point where the oil's pulled in under high vacuum conditions as you described. Especially if you did not see a significant change following the head rebuild.
Brent B

Two other things i've heard of could contribute to this:

1 High manifold vacuum (such as would occur when costing downhill) can cause oil to be sucked into the brake servo. It will then burn causing blue smoke.
2 Overfilling the sump may cause oil to be used faster than normal, one way or another.
Triumphracer

The Triumph book for my TR3A said back in 1958 that oil consumption of 1 quart for every 600 to 1,000 miles was considered normal.

Since I restored "TRusty" in 1987 to 1990, I got 600 miles to a quart for the first 50,000 miles after my entire (including engine) re-build. I used to keep it filled to the top line on the dip-stick. My thought was that the more oil that's in the sump, the cooler it would be, and that's good.

But another TR owner/friend Russ Seto from Houston, Texas said he keeps his oil level at the bottom line on the dip-stick. Since then, I let it go to the bottom line, then add to about 1/2 way between the two lines.

Since then, over the next 25,000 miles, I have been getting 1,000 miles to a quart of oil. I assume the rest "splashed" out the breather pipe. And the spots on my garage floor are smaller.

This was all summer, mostly highway driving at 60 to 80 mph and, during all this time, I always used 20W50 Castrol GTX.

Don Elliott, Original Owner, 1958 TR3A
With over 75,000 miles driven since the restoration in 1990
Don Elliott

Hi Brent,

The head was completely redone with bronze guides
and valve seals. The blue smoke after going down a
hill has not improved at all after the head was redone.
I think my only option is to do a leakdown test. Hopefully that will show something.

Thanks to all

Bill Watt
BILL

If the results after a leakdown test are 1 - 2% or less (better) on all cylinders, then your engine was built to racing specs and is still there.

If the leakdown test shows 4 - 7% leakdown, it's in excellent condition for a normal car for everyday use.

Three cylinders on my TR3A gave 3 - 5% leakdown after 53,000 miles from total re-build and cyl #4 was 14%.

This showed where I was losing power but there was no urgent need to do anything about it. Since then, I've driven another 22,000 miles and I can say that I still don't feel it is any different.

Don Elliott, 1958 TR3A
Don Elliott

The reason I have a big sh*t eating grin on at the moment is because mine doesn't burn and it doesn't leak and no - I don't smell like oil after a drive in the country. If you are smelling fumes there has to be a leak somewhere.

John Parfitt
Calgary, Canada
73 5 speed.
John Parfitt

No mystery drips at all????
Brent B

Ok, Ok, I'll confess, there is a leak on the top of the engine - the cheap crapola Moss Aluminum Valve cover cap "weeps" and the three hold down screws "seep". But no, on the bottom of the engine everythings dry. With the pan I use sealer and snug fit overnight. Then on day 2 when the sealer is fully cured I tighten the pan. On the rebuild I replaced all the oil seals and they are dry so far. On the oil drain plug I use gas fitters sealer which stays soft but does not allow oil through. No mystery drips so far at 3000 miles since rebuild. Funny though - I sold my house last week - oil-stained-driveway-and-all! It was the house where I restored my first TR and it looks the part too! Garage floor is decimated!

John Parfitt
Calgary, Canada
73 5 speed
John Parfitt

This thread was discussed between 25/08/2003 and 28/08/2003

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