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Triumph TR6 - Copper Anti-sieze Grease

Hi Folks

Can the Copper Anti-sieze grease be used on brake pipe couplings?

Les
lw gilholme

Hi Les

I use it on brake couplings - and anything else I want to take apart again one day! In England copper grease is a lot more popular than it seems to be over here. If you look at English classic car magazines they always suggest using copper grease, but it never seems to be mentioned in anything written in America - in fact when you do see it mentioned it is only to warn the reader not to use it, though I have never seen a sensible explanation. Always struck me as odd. Copper brake pipes are similarly shunned over here while being the norm in England.

Cheers
Alistair
Alistair

Alistair,
The reason for not using copper (as in refridgeration tubing) for brake lines is it work hardens from vibration and is then prone to cracking. To my knowledge it is illegal in the US to use copper for brake lines for just that reason. In the UK the 'copper' brake lines are really cupro-nickel - a copper / nickel alloy. It is strong, easy to form and corrosion resistant.

Tom
Tom Sotomayor

Alistair is talking about using the copper based anti seize compound similar to Loctite's Nickel Anti Seize not copper pipe and tubing being used for carrying brake fluid.

Pete.
Peter Thomas

Pete,
The last sentence of Alistair's post reads:
"Copper brake pipes are similarly shunned over here while being the norm in England."

The balance of what he says is about anti seize. That I have no additional info on so didn't comment.

Tom
Tom Sotomayor

I would think that there would be no problems using the copper grease as long as you don't get some inside the system where brake fluid might mix with it. And even then, probably nothing wierd would happen soon enough to connect the problem. I always hope I don't have to take it apart again. And if I do, it's either going to be very soon or a very long time - either one making no difference in my decision to use anti-sieze.

I hope they used it on my platinum spark plugs that probably have never been changed in 150K miles..in an aluminum head. I'll find out soon enough.

Alistair did mention copper brake lines.
Tom

Yes, I did mention brake pipes, and I did mean CuNi pipes, not "pure" copper, but it was just an aside - it always struck me as odd that both copper grease and copper (alloy) brake pipes are so often recommended in England and so often rubbished in America. I didn't mean to upset anyone!

Cheers
Alistair
Alistair

Tom,
I was a little hasty on the response there.
My apologies and no offence intended.

Cheers , Pete.
Peter Thomas

Alistair,
I don't think you upset anyone. We're just engaging in good natured bantering. :o)

Pete,
Don't worry - none taken.

Tom
Tom Sotomayor

Probably not the right place for this, but y'all are discussing copper grease. I searched in vain for copper grease in US stores. Inevitably the oldest, most experienced service person in the auto parts store had NEVER heard of copper grease. I was able to get both a stick and a tub from England which I'm using sparingly as I've begun reassembly of some of my pieces and parts.

Additionally I had the very same experience with Red Rubber Grease...no one had ever heard of it, so again, I got a tub from England. Now I've finished my brake caliper rebuild and have about 98% of the Red Rubber Grease left. After I complete the rest of the braking system, I expect I'll have about 96% left. So...anybody need any Red Rubber Grease?? I'd be happy to send a liberal amount (about a tablespoonful should be enought for a whole car) to anyone facing the same difficulty I had!!
db
Doug Baker

Doug

After a lot of fruitless conversations in car parts shops over here I finally got a big tub of copper grease from a marine chandler in Texas. A very nice chap by the name of Gunnar sent it to me. His e-mail address is gunnar@chandlersupply.com I got his address from Molyslip in England, who make the stuff. They offered to make me an official distributor, but I would have had to buy 1200 tims, and I suspect that there is insufficient demand in the Triumph world to shift that much - as Doug points out, a tin is enough for about 3 lifetimes! Even lowering my standards and selling to MG owners would have left me with a large number of tins in my garage...

As for the red rubber grease I got a tube on e-bay - it comes up occasionally, priced at around $6 shipped, as I recall. It is also available from TRF (part number GISP1230) for $6. A tube seems like an awful lot so I have no idea how they justify packing it in tubs!

Alistair
Alistair

Doug Baker,
I don't know if it is similar to red rubber grease, but Raybestos sells a rubber grease, which is silicone based for assembly of brake parts. I have been using it for years, and so far, no problems.
You can purchase it from a local supplier.
Cleve

Cleve,
I now have enoght Red Rubber Grease to last me several lifetimes. Thanks for the tip.
db
Doug Baker

Doug
That is strange you can not find it. It is a very common product.
Try asking for "anti-sieze grease or compound" next time. My tubr is called COPASLIP and says made in Canada.
Rick
Rick Crawford

Rick,
There are several antiseize products that are quite common, but copper grease per se' has been next to impossible to locate in all the auto parts stores I queried. Moreove, no one knew the product. Had no problem getting it from England. Now have a small tub and a stick. Likely will use all the copper grease in reassembly, but the Castrol Red Rubber Grease for the braking system...again no one ever heard of it came in a tub about the size of a large margarine tub. I used a slight smear on each brake piston which hardly made a dent in the tub. So, I offered up to anyone having a similar problem. 35 mm flim canisters would likely be a goodly amount.
db
Doug Baker


As a matter of interest, a local U-Haul mechanic told me that U-Haul requires it's mechanics to use copper anti-seize.
JM Morris

Doug
I guess I am missing it here. My "stuff" is copper in colour. It appears that; that is where the similarity ends with "copper grease". Are we talking 2 different animals here?
Rick
Rick Crawford

There are three basic categories of anti-seize lubricants based on use temperature range. They start with graphite, lead and zinc filled non-melting grease compounds for lower temperature use. As the temperature goes up you start seeing copper added to the mix going to all copper and then you get in to the high temp stuff that uses all nickel particulate.

For automotive use, an all copper particulate or something along the lines of Jet-Lube's Kopr-Kote (copper-graphite particulate mix) should work. I would caution against using the Kopr-Kote types in conjuction with any titanium (yea, yea, I know there was no titanium on a TR6 from the factory, but you never know what someone has done out there). Soft metals such as lead, zinc and graphite will embrittle titanium, especially when it is used at elevated temperatures.

For the copper variety, I use the SS-30 from Jet-Lube that I picked up at a local aircraft supply. It is a mixture of extremely fine copper particulate suspended in a non-melting grease. Loctite has one under C5-A that is available from Aircraft Spruce. Both products meet MIL-PRF-907.

Steve Pike

Rick,
Steve is the metalurgist. I have a MSDS on copper grease so I guess that what I have is what Steve decribes, very fine copper particulates suspended in a high melting temp grease. Use if for antiseize applications. Use locktite elsewhere!!

BTW for Rick, Don, Steve and anyone else interested, I gave up on the body/paint community and decided to tackle the job myself. Progress to date is the battery tray is removed, a new piece cut and ready to weld in this week. The left inner wing is disconnected in most places and will be removed and replaced probably later this week. Then I'll start on the driver's floor pan. The bonnet and boot lid are about ready for top coat. When I complete color blocking the outer wings, all six pieces will be top coated and stored awaiting the rest of the tub. Cutting out and welding in is not nearly as fine an art nor as difficult as they who do if for a living would have you believe.
db
Doug Baker

Thank you Mr. Pike for giving me an education lesson.
You are never to old to learn something.

Doug, I am surprised you can not find a paint guy. Maybe they are scared off by it being an antique??
Rick
Rick Crawford

Oh Rick, I finally found one...just couldn't afford him. The price for doing a bit of body work and a complete paint job was more than my entire budget for the complete project. I may not get as fine a job when I'm finished, but it ain't costing me much!!
db
Doug Baker

Doug
Usually a price that is extremely high means
"I really do not want the job but if you want to pay me what I am asking, then I will do it."

What about MACO? You do all the prep and they do the painting.
Rick
Rick Crawford

Rick,
The local MACO franchise is operated by the son of a friend and that's indeed an option, but I have access to a full up paint booth with some oversight instruction and maybe a helper who'll do most of the actual spraying. Paint booth costs me less than a bottle of run-of-the-mill-single-malt per day!! My neighbor who has several classic cars have had all of them painted at MACO and is very happy with the results, so it definitely remains an option. Now I gotta get back to color blocking the bonnet one last time!!
db
Doug Baker

This thread was discussed between 03/08/2007 and 04/09/2007

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