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Triumph TR6 - Frame off!!!!


My frame is now off to a specialist to be repaired. My question is once I get it back how should I treat it in order to get a long and healthy life from it. POR 15 inside and out............. Waxoly inside POR 15 out........ powder coat inside out......... or what about expanding foam on the inside???????

I am sure there are many opinions and any (along with money) will be gratefully received
J Bonn

Foam is a four letter word, just say no.

Waxoyl or POR 15 are viable options for most of the fram sections but you will need a wand to reach up there and it will be pretty much impossible to verify 100% coverage unless you lots of time and a boroscope to use for inspection. If there is enough electrostaic charge to attract and retain the powder on the surface prior to baking, powder coat on the inside may be a viable option, but I would leave that to the powder coat experts out there.
SteveP

or what about expanding foam on the inside???????
ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your " specialist" is he giving it back to you as bare metal?
He should be the one finishing it off.

In SC I think any good paint should do the trick. Lets face it, even up in in snow and salt country we do not plan on driving them in the winter.
Rick Crawford

Although the jury is still out, I had my TR6 frame dipped in molten zinc. It covers inside and out and the cost was probably the same as POR 15 and no real labour time. It cost me $150 Canadian at the time (4 years ago). It does add some weight to the frame though. I estimate 20 pounds. I had to drill vent holes to avoid any risk of pressure build up on the frame while being dipped.

From all appearances it seems to have been a good decision but the car has been on the road 2 years only. I didn't paint the frame after the dipping so it still looks metallic. If you don't want that look then you can paint it. The car never sees snow and ice and rarely sees rain.

Just a suggestion for an alternative.

Do not do the foam. It will be like a sponge for moisture.

If you want to see pictures of the frame before and after dipping drop me a line at

gendeliveryAT@cogecoDOT.ca

drop the AT and DOT to get the real address (helps avoid the spam mail)

Regards and good luck with your choice.

Mike Petryschuk
Georgetown Ontario
Michael S. Petryschuk

Something I have seen on the Speed shows is the stuff they spray on the pick up truck beds. Also there are wax oil home concoctions and Penotrol sprays from your local paint store. Just spray in your frame and shake!
DON KELLY

I tried the bedliner aerosol on a small test area in my TR's wing well and can tell you the stuff is too stiff and easily cracks. My vote is Waxoyl over a properly prepared surface.
Rick Orthen

Why the bad vibes on the foam? I did it to mine 4 years ago and it worked out great. It actually doesn't absorb water, contrary to intuitive thinking. I tested it before I did it - put some in water and force submerged it for a couple of days. Set it free and it pops right back to the surface. It's far more dense than you think. Other objection I heard somewhere was it's flammable. You need air to support combustion - the foam forces all of the air out. Besides, if you are worried about the inside of your frame catching fire, it's already to late. It's the only way I know to completely cover the inside with the body on. If I had the frame naked, I would certainly immerse it in a good protective coating, but you will never get complete coverage with a spray application like Waxoyl or POR. Just my 2 cents...
Jim Vandenberg

Jim- If you have an empty frame plug all the holes and fill and rotate frame . I would think this would probably get 99.9% of coverage.Helps to do in the summer when it is warmer.
Don
DON KELLY

Jim - I think the problem with the foam in the frame is that the foam will not adhere to the inner surfaces, especially if the inner surfaces were a little rusty before you did it. As you say, the water does not absorb into the foam. So any water that gets into the frame will sit between the foam and the surface rust already there. And you won't have any ventilation to dry it. I wouldn't foam a frame.

The question to ask is, "How many miles will I drive my TR in the rain?" I've driven my TR3A over 94,000 miles in the past 16 summers since I restored it - body off. The frame is painted outside and I sprayed Waxoyl inside. During that time, I would guess that I drove the car a total of about 4,000 miles in the rain. No frame will rust inside or out, with so few miles on it.

Don Elliott, Original Owner, 1958 TR3A

http://www.triumphest2006.com/images/clubcars/30donelliott'str3.jpg
Photo at VTR Colorado 2001
Don Elliott

My 2 cents worth...a local "restorer" advised using bed liner, but spraying it very lightly...that is less thickly. It's been my experience that bed liner...rhino or whatever is flexible and will move with the flex of the underlying metal. The use recommended to me was on the INSIDE of the floor pans. They rust inside out, not from the bottom which is typically protected by undercoating. So much for bed liner.

Regarding the frame, It has been my plan to soda or sand blast my frame to clean metal, powder coat everywhere that we can achieve good adhesion (corners are bad with electrostatic interference), then apply waxyol or some other rust inhibitor in those areas enclosed or apt to not get a good powder covering. Comments are invited as to a better approach. The only criticism I have received is that I'm overdoing it, that's it's not necessary to PC to protect the frame, but since it's my money, I ignore that. Would that I had access to a dipping facility, acid dipping to clean and then some rust inhibitor (paint like POR-15, maybe)would be my first choice, but the closest such facility I've found is in Atlanta, about 4 hours away by road. A bridge too far.
db
Doug Baker

Doug,

Let me know who you have located in this area. The source we had been using had shut down. Maybe the dissolved someone, from watching them work we always expected that to happen sometime.
SteveP

Doug, Jim, we all know that there is no bridge too far
for our cars!But I understand what you are saying.
My frame, I acid dipped, exterior POR15 inside Rustcheck oil spray. Les Gilhome is about to inherit that frame as I wait for my brand new frame from Ratco. Yes, it is overkill but who can say what will happen in the future? Someone in 2080 may thank and appreciate the guy from the past who went to the trouble of making sure this car would last.
Of course I'm not living for him, but I do have to think about him, just as I think about the previous owners of all the old and antique tools that I own that were so well taken care of that I might end up with them some day.

Sand blasting would be the cheapest and most effective on a frame followed by and etching primer and any quality paint( POR15 is what I used and love it) and some kind of oil spray inside of the frame.
Good luck,
Chris
Christopher Trace

Good points, all. Since I never drive in the rain or snow, I guess maybe my circumstances are a bit different than most. As have many of you, I'm sure, I spent so many hours getting rid of the rust that I guess I'm a bit gun shy. One thing most here seem to agree on is the use of POR on the exterior. Like Chris, I love that stuff.

BTW, one unexpected benefit of the foam is that it keeps out the critters. At one point my 6 sat for quite a long time (kids and all), and when I finally got back to it it was FULL of acorns and hickory nuts and every other kind of chipmunk snack. Spent hours getting them all out. Talk about valueless labor!

Jim
Jim Vandenberg

Chris,
Thanks for your comments and experience. I will be making a decision in the next few weeks, since the tub goes to the painter on 6 Jan (finally).

Steve, I'll revisit the data and advise off line.
db
Doug Baker

Chris - It sounds like you are only the custodian of that beautiful TR6 V8 and you plan that it will last for the next 75 years. Will you still be here to enjoy it ? I know I'm planning to still be here at that time and drive my TR3A. But I'm not sure where I'll be able to buy any gasoline - if there's any left at any price !

Don Elliott, Original Owner, 1958 TR3A
Don Elliott

Hi J Bonn...

I have no personal experience or expertise on this subject but wanted to learn myself as well as help you so I asked the 10-year veteran of professional grade vintage car restoration who is doing my 76 TR6 the question. I had asked specifically about POR 15 since I had seen a demo on its toughness. What follows is his opinion.

Good luck,

Ken

“POR 15 is a do-it-yourself kind of product. It's an air-dry paint vs. industry standard 2 part products with one of the parts being a hardener. I'm not saying it's bad - just a hobbyist's product. The manufacturer I prefer is Herbert's Standox (just bought by Dupont). I use epoxy primer because of its rust preventive properties and I use acrylic urethane because it has superior properties over enamels. It looks great (flows nice) and has better resistance to UV and chemicals. It’s quite a bit more expensive than enamel but you know... you get in a habit of using a product and you get comfortable with it, etc. The reason I use a black primer under black paint is 1) better coverage the closer the two are, and 2) if the paint chips from a rock or scrape and the primer is the same color, it won't show. Wet-on-wet urethane over epoxy is the most professional, and uncompromising method for frames and undercarriages. I hope that helps.”
K. T. Shaddock

Don ,Glad to see you are up and running.
Hope you have a good Christmas. In 75 years I would be pushing 122 years old. I think the record is 121.
I might be wrong but I probably won't be here, but my work will be. I encourage everyone to not only sign there work but also add and leave some documentation and stories with their stuff so the next generation doesn't lose all we have built on.
Merry Christmas.
Chris
Christopher Trace

molten zinc is great, but don't paint it! you need the zinc exposed to the elements and do its job.
merry x'mas everyone
Paddy
Paddy Kan

Hi to all on the BBS and a Merry Christmas to all. When i restored my 72 I had the frame sandblasted and replaced the rear frame members and lower criciform plate Ialso reinforced the rear diff mounts and spring mounts. than I had the frame rad support cross member tube bumper brackets and sway bar powder coated in black They also powder coated the rear trialing arms and diff cover in clear. All this was done quickly and easily for $400 Cdn.The frame and assorted parts turned out great and nothing chipped on reassembly even when hammering from time to time. When I sent it for sandblasting and powder coating I left all the old bolts in the threads and then removed them when I got it back. When I got it home I used a can of Crown Rustproofing on the inside tipping the frame this way and that so it would run all over the inside I then eithier replaced or sandblasted and POR15 all the other assorted bits to make a brand new rolling drivetrain. I highly recommend powdercoting/rustproofing. Regards John P.S. I have made a slide show like Mike another BBSer I just have to put it together and load it.
John O'Meara

This thread was discussed between 16/12/2006 and 27/12/2006

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