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Triumph TR6 - Frame Rust Proofing- Galvanize?

I am currently rebuilding a 1969 TR6. I have it down to the frame and am looking for the best way to protect it from further corrosion.
I am considering hot dip galvanizing. Any one with experience and advice?
Other options include a chemical strip and dip in a primer or epoxy for both inside and outside protection but I cannot find a local company that can dip in epoxy or primer. (I found chemical stripper).

Any advice, comment and help is appreciated.

Regards
Mike
Mike

Mike - I restored my TR3A from 1987 through 1990. It was a total frame off job. I stripped it and then loaded everything onto a trailer and took it to a commercial sandblaster. $350.00 for 3 and 1/2 hours work. Well worth it ! Then straight into the paint shop where they sprayed every piece plus the frame with "vinyl wash" followed by a primer and then the final black finish.

I have driven "TRusty" over 70,000 miles in the last 12 summers and I still get 383 points in the VTR concours out of 400, and 95 points at TRA out of 100.

My frame is still like it was in 1990. All my panels were done the same way and under my fenders, the paintwork is just as smooth and shiny as the outside.

Go for the above and you won't regret it.

To see my resoration photos, click on the Montreal triumph web-site - then on Members Cars - also Member Profiles. There are 5 pphotos of the professional painter spraying my TR.

http://www.rucompatible.com/triumphmtl

Don Elliott, Original Owner, 1958 TR3A
Don Elliott

I forgot to mention that normally TR drivers don't go out much in the rain, but I can say that about 3,000 miles of the 70,000 miles I've driven in the last 12 summers have been in the rain. When I do trips of 1200 miles up to 7220 miles before I'm back home you can guess that I'll encounter some rain while I'm away.

It is reported that the "vinyl wash" is essential to bond the fresh paint to the bare metal and that it also acts as a rust preservative.

Don Elliott, 1958 TR3A
Don elliott

Mike ,
I took my frame to Technostrip in Etobicoke and they
took it back to clean fresh metal. I then painted it
with two coats Por15 rust paint and sprayed the inside
of the frame with RustCheck oil spray. No problems
sofar. But as Don says we don't try to drive in the rain.
Good luck,
Chris
Christopher Trace

Hi Mike

Working on my frame 1972. Interested in hearing more about your project.

Galvenizing done properly will require clean bare metal inside and out. Acid or chemical strip dipping for inside due to boxed frame. Plenty of water wash to get rid of acid seeped in to spot welded boxing areas. Never get it out. Boxed frames it won't work. From other projects galvenizing did not turn out well. Acid seeps paint blisters rust starts.

Primer simple primer inside or out is high penetration water just flows in. The idea of primer is to allow paint to flow into and bond. Thats were simple ends.

Epoxy primer is great very low penetration and seals very fast. Your paint will only bond well from flash to about 12 hours depending on temp. and manufactures BS. I use PPG. But I have all my own equip. sandblasting and paint guns and do my own painting. I can stay on schedule except when wife calls and calls? Once epoxy seals it has to be well sanded for paint to stick even with air tools its no fun. Epoxy as a base coat is also very hard almost a ceramic stones hitting will cause paint chipping. If your going to use give a number of coats of high build primer prior to painting. This is what works for me each painter will have a different combo for the objective. Been there done that.

Don's Vinyl wash is an older system that works perfect for a paint system. Notice Blasted/ straight to painter/vinyl wash /primer/paint. Any stop or wait causes problems.

Inside I plan to stick it up on end and pour some type of rust slower in. Fill up turn like a turkey drain into pans refill with lots of help. The structure has lots of baffles actually torsional stiffeners that prevent easy flow.

Anyway I have lots of welding to do replacing rotted steel before I get to preserving it.

Bill




B Brayford

I plan on sand blasting then powder coating then oiling inside as per Bill's turkey rotissery(sp?) Any thoughts on this from the paint guys
Don K.
DON KELLY

As you may imagine, corrosion is a major problem here - warm, damp, salty, etc. However, a really simple preserver is good old penetrol - it soaks into everything (including surface rust) and eventually dries, leaving a good barrier against moisture. Depends if you want you car to last a mere 1/2 century or longer.Is cheap and quick. This only works if you don't already have severe rusting.
Peter G

Mike--How about a good coating of that Brit "Waxoyl"? My 72 is covered with the stuff and it does not come off without a LOT of work (as me how I know). I can attest to its effectiveness (30 years and counting). Also, remember that you'll have a constant preservative oil spray on some of the undercarriage from engine/gearbox/diff leakers.;)

Rick O.
Rick Orthen

Thanks for the feedback. I see I have some choice and a decision to make. I have finished welding all the rotted steel out of mine. About 80-100 hours of effort so far and I don't want to have to do it again as you can probably imagine. I have a 1968 Spitfire I currently drive and agree that it doesn't see the light of day if it's raining out. I want to use the TR6 for longer drives and expect it will see rain similar to Don's experience.

I was hoping to find a place in the Toronto area that could dip the whole frame in a corrosion protective coating but have not been unsuccessful.

Don--How did your paint shop coat inside the frame on your TR3A?

I had thought about the "turket rotissery" routine but I am limited by space and am concerned about the mess I will have to deal with in my driveway. Also with winter approaching the temperature is not ideal for the task. But this may be the only route to satisfy my self imposed specification of a complete inside durable rust protective coating. Maybe I can find a garage willing to let use a bay to do the work.

Rick-- I haven't heard of Waxoyl. Where is it available from and should a primer be applied prior to applying the Waxoyl?
Mike

Mike - After I got the frame back from the paint shop, I "Waxoiled" the inside of all the box sections. There are small holes about 3/8" diameter in the ends of the TR3A frame and I had a long "wand" which I inserted to mid-way, then started the waxoil spray as I withdrew the wand. The wand was connected to the waxoil outlet and I sprayed all the insides. I did the same for my new inner sills. I primered everthing else in the inside before the final welding (as for the space between the inner and outer sills, etc.) I used a brush.

It is available in every Halford's store in England (like Canadian Tire here) but you can't fly it home because it is marked as a flamable wax/petroleum product. Likewise for small cans of Hammerlite Paint.

I remember seeing it for sale in Connecticut. I also remember seeing a thread where they had the recipe to make your own.

It comes as black tar variety (for undercoating, which I didn't do) and also as a yellowish wax in a can. I had to mix more alcohol to thin it out as it had gotten lumpy and I couldn't spray it like that. I think it has beeswax in it.

Don Elliott, 1958 TR3A
Don Elliott

I found the thread - Here it is

Here is a recipe for home made "Waxoyl". It's an old fashioned rust treatment / undercoating:

2 1/2 quarts turpentine
12 oz. beeswax / candle wax
1 quart light machine oil

With a cheese shredder, cut the wax into the turpentine, stir until the wax has dissolved, (takes a long time; you can use very low heat (a warm room) to aid but be careful) and thin with the machine oil to a brushable / sprayable consistency. Apply liberally. You can use a hand spray bottle to get into closed-off sections if you have a small access hole.


Please be sensible when you make this stuff; don't go breathing the fumes or applying heat and burning down your house. If you have any doubts about it, err on the side of caution and just buy a commercially available product.
Don Elliott

Mike--Moss has Waxoyl listed, but I've never purchased any (I have enough on the car already!). Yes, this coating would go on top of any other coatings you'd normally apply to preserve metal (primer, top coat). I tell you, it's great stuff on surfaces you don't want to see.

Don--Thanks for the recipe; have you actually used it?

Rick O.
Rick Orthen

No I have never made it from this recipe. I would next time. From the recipe, it sounds just like what I used. My Waxoil came as a kit, with the pressure pump included to spray it. The pump looks much like a hand pump garden sprayer for spraying weeds, etc. I'm sure any of those would work, it's just that you have to get the Waxoil thin enough to pump it and have it spray out in a wide enough pattern. I tested it and finally felt I had the right fluidity to get full spray coverage inside my box frame members.

I bought what I needed during a business trip to England. When I found out I couldn't have it as "carry-on baggage" on the plane, I had it shipped by our office in Henley-on-Thames with some machinery they were shipping back to Canada.

http://www.geocities.com/wallaces_21/waxoyl.html

is where I found the recipe about 2 - 4 years ago, and today it sits among my "Favorites" in my Triumph File of useful info.

Don Elliott, 1958 TR3A
Don Elliott

I've been using Waxoyl on and in the TR since 1976. For the chassis, I take the commercial Waxoyl, add about 10-15% white spirit ( turpentine substitute), stick the gallon can in a bucket of really hot water for at least 15mins and spray into cavities with an oil-spray attachment on the compressed air-line and semi-rigid wand.
The main drawback to Waxoyl is that it freezes almost insantly on contact with cold metal. So it will not seep into welded joints unless you do the spraying on a hot summer day with the chassis in the sun for good measure. it should stay runny and drip out when you turn the chassis upside down to spread it around.
In exposed areas it needs additional protection- I use mastic-impregnated tape as sold for sealing roof gutters. Stick this into waxoled wing-corners (fender corners) and along fender-to- inner-wing joints. After a year or so peel off the tape with all the dirt, and redo.
Thanks to above precautions the TR still has its original chassis, centre body and front fenders. Only the rear wings/fenfders , doors and rear upper outer valence have needed replacing. Thats not to say that the chassis did not rust in places, but the holes were easily patched.
Peter Cobbold

Mike

Do not apply anything inside or out untill you have completed the outside paint finish. Your paint will never stick.

From your rust work you know the bad areas. Between body and frame at top. Cruciforms and frame. Bottom of frame moisture inside. Trailing arm crossmembers from suction at rear and sides as car goes down the road and no drains for just even simple condensation. Drill some holes. Have you ever opened up the back window in a pickup truck at 60 and had every thing in the bed come flying in?

I don't know your age but pretty much any thing you apply to these areas will probably leave someone else doing another frame restore not you. Pay attention to where you have welded. Steel tends to rust more were there is a lot of heat. The holes in center were your trailing arm legs attach? Most of the cars were driven all winter with salt new. BL slapped a quick coat of frame paint IE. whatever they had in black to get it through showroom.

Bill
B Brayford

I only used the Wax-oil inside the box members of my frame. The outer surfaces were painted in 1988 and still are. With 3,000 miles driven in the rain out of 70,000 miles driven in 12 summers, I use mineral spirits (Varsol) to wipe down the frame about 3 times a summer, just before any concours event and the painted frame surfaces (as is everything else underneath) still like new.

I think that putting wayoil on the outer surfaces of the frame as well is not a bad idea, unless you plan to enter it in concours shows. With thw waxoil all over the frame, it'll last about 200 years and you won't be caring much about that then.

BTW, I had my frame undercoated when I bought it new in 1958 and after 4 winters on blocks, I drove it the next 8 winters. The tar undercoating cracked, formed envelopes in places which retained water and caused surface rust. When I removed the rest of this tar in 1987, I found out that my frame was originally yellow, not black. But today it is black. What concours judge would have believed me that it came painted yellow. Today we find all kinds of validated stories about TR3 frames painted powder blus, red, white, etc.

Don Elliott, Original Owner, 1958 TR3A
Don Elliott

This thread was discussed between 19/11/2002 and 22/11/2002

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