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Triumph TR6 Going Nuts BBS discussion at MG-Cars.info
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Triumph TR6 - Going Nuts
| Hi Guys! I'm a non-member with a non-technical question, but a frustrating situation. I am in the process of restoring a '71, and am determined to bring every component on the car back to its best possible condition. In the process of dismantling the rear trailing arms and wheel asemblies I am at am impasse. I cannot remove the 1-1/8" retaining nuts that secure the hubs. I have applied penetrating oil countless times, been through innumerable torch sessions, practically worn out my impact wrench, and beat on a socket/breaker bar assembly mercilessly. Nothing. If it were just cosmetic I could work around it but you really can't replace the u-joints without withdrawing them from the trailing arm body. Any suggestions from all you knuckle busters out there would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Jim |
| Jim V. |
| Jim, I am not sure what 1-1/8 nut you are refering to but if all you want to do is replace the u-joints this is what you do. First undo the four bolts connecting the driving flange (which is right up against the side of the diff) to the flange that holds the inbound u-joint. Next, remove the six bolts that hold the rear hub housing to the trailing arm assembly. You should now be able to slide the entire axle out through the trailing arm. I have found that the rubber gaiter sometimes does not cooperate sliding through so I usually compress together with some wire or duct tape. The u-joints are fairly simple to replace although after 30 years they tend not to cooperate. Reintsall is the reverse just be careful when you rebolt the hub housing to the trailing arm since they have a tendency to strip in the soft metal. Good luck. Mike |
| Mike Parkhill |
| Hi Jim You have kind of lost me. The rear axles have 4 bolts nuts at the diff. and I think 6 on the outer edge of trailing arm. Whole unit just slides out. Makes it easier if you wire around the UJs so the 2 units don't slide apart. There are no 1 1/8 nuts that should be removed. Bill |
| Bill Brayford |
| Jim V STOP STOP STOP!!!!!!! WRONG NUT!!!! ok..I think I have your attention now. According to the experts on this "everyone is more than welcome" BBS you do not want to loosen that nut. I asked the question a few weeks ago about rebuilding the hub assembly at it is clearly not something for the shade tree mechanic. Hopefully you have not done any damage to the hub and its bearings. Read what Mike has said above. I shall elaberate slightly on what he has said. If you look to the side of the BIG NUT you will see 2 holes oposite one another..look through the holes and turn the hub to align 2 at a time nylock nuts that hold the hub assembly to the trailing arm. Loosen off 2 nuts with an extension on the socket then rotate hub, do another 2, then rotate again to do the last 2.....6 total. At this point I prefer to seperate the inner and outer shafts as it is just plain easier to withdraw the outer yoke and shaft than the entire thing. Clip/cut what ever holds the gator boot over the spline. The entire hub and outer yoke will come out through the hole in the trailing arm. With the outer yoke out of the way you can pull off/tap off the PVC boot covering the following nuts and bolts.The boot is only pressed on so a little tug should pull it off. The inner yoke and flange is removed by the 4 bolts and nylock nuts holding it to the drive flange assembly. NOW you can do the UJs. Simply reverse to reinstall and do not worry the splines are "keyed" so only back together one way....add a little grease here. Also be very carefull when tightening the NEW nylock nuts to the studs in the trailing arms...only 20LBs torque! When you have it out you better check the hub assembly from all that banging on it you did. The hub should rotate freely when the stub axle is held with one hand. The hub SHOULD be kinda stiff to turn but without any " feel" of rough spots. Jim you deffinitely do not need to be a member of the secret society...actually just kiddin. The only benifit to registering at this BBS and becoming an " exclusive" member is that you have access to the archives. Beleive me, the archives are worth reading. Let us know how you get along with the removal and actually this job really does not bust any knuckles. Have fun Rick C |
| Rick Crawford |
| Jim I forgot to mention something that others on this BBS might think is important :) Ya Gotta remove the drum to see the 2 holes I am talking about...just a little slip of the brain. For drum removal there are 2 things you gotta do: 1: take the hand brake off :) 2: there are 2 flush slotted head screws that MUST be removed. Be carefull here as they have a tendancy to weld themselves in place after a few years. Usually they need to be replaced as they get a little mucked up when trying to remove them. Anti-seize on the reinstall. The brake backing plate and shoes can stay in place if you want...or maybe it is time to re-shoe the old girl. At this point go back to my first post. I am in the same position as you except that I also have the differential out. I just replaced all the UJs. Jim now that you have come aboard there is something you must know. It is our sworn duty on this BBS to make more work out of a simple project. Just look at poor John from Calgary and what Dr. Bill made him do with his rear oil seal top bolt...what a guy Bill:) Anyway the reason I mention this is since you are close to having the diff out...maybe you should drop it. Reason: why I am doing mine. The mounts for the diff are the weakest part of a TR6 frame. They tend to crack and break at a time when you do not want it to happen...like at 60MPH around a corner. I am also a 71 and unfortunately we did not get the upgrade to the mounts...we got the front upgrade but not the back. If you decide to go further with this we will be glad to elaborate on this issue. See more work:) and besides it is also a good opportunity to go over to polly diff mounts. You are doing that to the trailing arm right? Rick C |
| Rick Crawford |
| Very good advice, Mr. Crawford. Any new owner of a TR6 should drop that differential and put in new mounts if they don't know the history. MUCH easier than the repair - which I did 8 years ago. I recently (2 weeks ago) went to polyurethane mounts to replace the now 8 year old rubber ones - I can't tell any difference in drivability, but they'll last forever. |
| Brent B |
| Gentlemen: They say humility is a virtue. I come to you tonight a virtuous man. I used to think I was a fairly capable mechanic. But as we know, pride goeth before the fall. Once I read your posts and looked at the workpiece it couldn't have been more clear to me what to do. I guess I just saw this big nut staring me in the face and I was going to crack it, by God. I'm really glad I showed some sense and wrote you guys before I did something REALLY stupid. Fortunately the hub assembly appears none the worse for wear. Rick, I had already taken the entire diff and trailing arm assembly off the car (so the job in quest5ion here just took me about, oh, five minutes). I have already welded in diff bracket reinforcements, and will be installing poly diff mounts and trailing arm bushings, so I should be pretty solid. Two questions remain: 1) there is apparently no way to freshly lubricate the hub assembly short of a rebuild. Am I correct? 2) How do I become a member? Thanks & Regards, Jim |
| Jim Vandenberg |
| Jim They pretty much last forever. Or you will have to find an experienced shop in your area to rebuild or send them away when its cold if you have problems. Easy to come out now though. Don't know how you become a member exactly. Just sign up give your info and bookmark the page after your username password is OKed. I think thats all there is. Getting old I forget. You won't get any spam or crap other than some bad puns lots of good info literaly from around the world. If the combined brains on this sight could be tapped and written down you would have the mother of all Triumph manuals. Wecome aboard as they say Bill |
| Bill Brayford |
| Jim- Good to see someone from the lower 48 joining in . I was beginning to think the Canadians were taking over. I think Ohio is still a state. Don K. |
| DON KELLY |
| Hi Jim...and welcome to a very informative BBS site To become a member just go to the link below and follow the steps to register...one advantage of membership like Rick said is accessing the previous posts / archives and you can also customise the way the the threads are layed out and change the colours etc. Also when you start or reply to a thread ypur name ect is automatically filled in for you. http://www.british-cars.co.uk/cgi-bin/gen5?runprog=tr Cheers Charlie |
| Charlie Ballard |
| Welcome Jim. Other's advise on the hubs is right on--leave the job to a shop that has the proper jig and puller. Are you from the basket belt of Ohio? Rick O. Western PA 72 TR6 |
| Rick Orthen |
| Charlie, thanks for the link. Have completed the registration and look forward to scouring the archives! Rick, not sure what the basket belt is; am from Medina, just south of Cleveland. Thanks again to all for the sound advice. Jim |
| S. Vandenberg |
| Jim Glad to hear the hub looks OK. Like everone says ..leave the hubs alone and yes you are correct. #2 has been answered for you by Mr. windblocker ..missed you at the BBSTTC first get together Charlie. A word of caution. The WEB master this BBS was hacked badly recently. A while back it looked like this BBS was being used as a source of e-mail addresses for the purpose of spam and viruses. As u can see my e-mail address has a few extra bits in it ( remove @xmeout and the last @). Your choice what u do Jim. Jim you will see that we refer to the green and blue bibles from TRF...I presume you have these...makes it easy...picture worth a 1000 words thing. Another nice WEB site you can go to and post a pic of your 6: http://www.trregistry.com/start/registry/html/TR6/index.htm You will see some of the posters this BBS showing off there 6s there not to mention a lot of fine examples. Like the rest, welcome Jim. So you chaps south of us, what do we call this one? Desert storm 2..the sequel? Rick C |
| Rick Crawford |
| Just taking out the trash |
| Mark |
| Jim--That would be Longaberger country (Dresden OH). You'll likely have to "allow" the mrs. to covet a few of those baskets in exhange for TRF parts orders. Cheers. Rick O. |
| Rick Orthen |
| Rick C.- Ask me in a couple of years, it could be triumph(no pun) or disaster. I have never seen an issue since Vietnam that has divided friends, families, and countries. Anyway, a small nit to pick. You recomended 20 lbs torque for the studs on the trailing arms. My semi-reliable Haynes manual says 14-16 lbs., and Kastner's comp manual warns not to exceed 12-14 lbs. Knowing how easy it is to strip threads out of aluminim, I think I would go with the lower numbers. Berry 71 TR6 cc63230 born in March |
| Berry |
| WHY DID YOU GUYS TELL HIM IT WAS SO EASY AND FREE TO JOIN THIS BBS??? I was going to tell him to mail me a check for $50 and he'd become a member! (Just thought I'd be the first one to give him some crap - welcome to the site - you'll find some real help here - I sure have, just from reading the messages. Now, if I could just find the guy that charged me $50 to become a member I'd....) |
| R.C. Blair |
| R.C., from what I have learned already on this site it would have been WORTH $50 to join. Rick O., I hope COVET is the key word there. If it's an eye for an eye, my house is gonna be full of those things! Jim V. |
| Jim Vandenberg |
| Berry I stand corrected and agree on the lower torque. Ya I guess we will all be watching the telly tonight. Our good old PM decided he (we) just do not want to play in this game. Nice neighbours EH! Mark, this time take ALL the trash out please. Berry check this out Rick C 71 TR6 cc65060L born May Bob thanks for the 50 bucks... hee hee |
| Rick Crawford |
| Hey first off Bob it had to be one of us Canadians $50 US goes a long way up for beer up here eh. Jim send your cheque to BBSTTC care of... and thanks for the beers at next get together. Bob took care of the last one.:) Good thought on the trash Mark but hope they can be as environmentaly responsible as possible and seperate the recyclables from all the true garbage and this time bury the garbage good and deep!!! Berry I read a world trade paper on who owes who what recently. And as far as the countrys that disagree and agree. Its pretty obvious decisions are being made by there wallets. Saddams various attempted takeovers of other countrys have left Iraq in serious debt to those in disagreement. But country has great long term assets. The other guys don't want the US being the first secured creditor before they get paid. Simple business practice. My kids of course feel diplomacy is the only way. And I am a stupid old warmonger. As for myself I grew up in the very early aftermath of Hitler and start of cold war. With some people diplomacy just won't work. So you either whack them or let them take over. Still hope for solution as all do. Now for the trailing arm thread woe's. DO NOT FINGER TIGHT THE BOLTS. YES 14 to 20 IS OK. IF you don't have an accurate 3/8 torque wrench use a 1/4 ratchet and hold it close to head. IF THEY WON'T SNUG or feel questionable THEY ARE STRIPPED. DO NOT LEAVE. Buy a Heli-coil kit for those bolts. I will post the part # don't have it here. Because of unlike metals and dpos you may get some stripped thread no matter how carefull. You may have to order the kit due to fine thread. 15 years ago it cost me $60.00 Can. for 1 size. It hurt so I remember it well for 2 stripped threads. Use original Heli-Coil set that is only for the one size but comes with proper drill bit and lots of inserts. Ran into one with 4 out of six stripped? Lovely. Thankfully not on the road. Most of the 3rd party multi size coppy kits are pure junk. DonK we have taken over. It will just take us a few million years to thaw out and realize it! :) Now for a question. What the hell is this basket business all about??? I thought weaving was 2 URLs over? Bill |
| Bill Brayford |
| Gentlemen, what a thread! Everything from hub bolts to the impenteding war. Who says this is just a venue for exotic car geeks. Please do it quickly and painlessly. Those people have suffered more than enough. |
| Christopher Trace |
| Exactly Chris Told you it was a Canadian Bob. Notice I posted after Rick but I know these guys terrible.:) Oh well beer was good..:) Most torque wrenches not calibrated yearly or improperly stored will be inaccurate at the low end. I advise using 1/4 ratchet drive hand close to head good snug. Just about 20. Do not under tighten do not over. If you have a stripped thread fix it. Many where left because owners felt the whole unit required replacement. Simple fix. Bill |
| Bill Brayford |
| Jim--The length of the COVETing delay process is inversely proportional to the number of times the brown truck stops in front of your house in any one week. At my house, anything over "1" was cause for prompt evasive action (dinner out). This only works for awhile though. Rick O. |
| Rick Orthen |
| Well, at least my $50 went to a good cause (beer!) |
| R.C. Blair |
| Bill-Getting rid of SH is probably the easy part. What replaces him, how long we are stuck in the quagmire of policing the area as targets of the various anti-American groups, and the effect on our relationsip with the surrrounding countries will be the tough part. Only the perspective of time will decide if we made the right decision. Last non-Triumph comment, I promise. See what you started, Rick. Where did you get the 20 lb torque number for the studs? Berry-Send me $50 or the Longeberger basket ads will start arriving in the mail. |
| Berry |
| I think this is the first time I ever heard of a TR6 refered to as an exotic> Don K |
| DON KELLY |
| Berry My last comment also...all I did was ask what u guys where going to call it and finish taking out the trash! The 20lbs came from my head...sounded like a nice low number. Don K, do not forget Chris has 2 extra pots under his hood so I guess ya could say his is exotic:) Do I dare ask... what is a longeberger basket? This is a new one for me too Bill...maybe we are living a sheltered life and there is something beyond TR6 chatter. Rick C |
| Rick Crawford |
| Must be some in-joke in the rainy North West US of A. You know - like a "basket case". Just to confuse us law-abiding, helpful Canadians. Don Elliott, 1958 TR3A |
| Don Elliott |
| It is all Rick O's fault. Longaberger is a co. that makes hand crafted (overpriced) baskets and is located in Dresden, Ohio. About 5 years ago my wife got invited to a "Longaberger party". She came home with a pathetic small basket that would barely hold a set of spark plugs for a TR6 and cost $65. So, I thought it might be worth $50 for wives to not be exposed to the temptation of wasting money that could be used for TR parts. Berry |
| Berry |
| Yup, the overpriced basket thing is quite a subculture down here. I promise, last non-TR comment of the day. For those interested in the BIG basket with some TR's ready to go in, check out: http://www.buckeyetriumphs.org/photos/2001/2001July.JPG Rick O. |
| Rick Orthen |
I struggled with the temptation to enter the WAR discussion on the BBS, but frankly it is the best reality show on TV this week, and I think it will directly effect us Triumph owners. Correct me if I'm wrong, but after the last pissing match in the dessert, didn't all of those burning oil wells have an environmental impact and cause a long wet, dark, dreary summer the following year? Perhaps some of you older 'vert owners remember running with with your tops up all summer long? I'm glad to see things are progressing well and some Iraqi's have enough sense to save their own skins. As for Canadian participation, I just wanted our good friends in the south to know that our PM (That's Prime Minister - not Menstral Period) is a true statesman. Openly we declare we will only support a UN sanctioned war, however, the facts are something different. Some of our troops are in Iraq on an exchange program, our war ships (I think you call them Zodiacs)are in the Persian Gulf playing a support role (trawling for tuna & haddock)and we sent relief troops to Afghanistan to free up your boys to chase SH. Call it what you will, all Canadians are Triumph owners at heart and don't like anyone messing with our very short sunny summers. P.S. Don't be a bit surprised if we're the first to step up with the long term job of Peace keeping - apparently that's what we do best. Let's see.. training in Nunavut (-35C) or patroling in Baghdad (+35C). (Selfish bastards!) |
| Mati Holland |
| Gentlemen: Little did I know that my inability to remove a single nut would inpire such a diverse and prolific dialogue. I was going to add "profound" but I think the Lonagaberger discussion disqualifies the use of that description. Mati, on behalf of those of us south of the border, we appreciate your sentiments, and the reality is that there coudn't be a better neighbor than Canada has been to the US. Jim |
| Jim Vandenberg |
| Jim Actually your inability to remove the wrong Tr nuts gave you a response from 3 certified TR nuts. Enabling you to remove the 6 right TR nuts required. Following me there Jim? 10 more TR nuts added torque advice and a discussion on stripped threads, axle assemblies. All relevent. Very well done I might add RickC. You might have mailed a video to make it a little more clear. :) Most of the dialogue came from the world as a wholes inability to remove 1 nut. And the US decision to do so. I believe this nut may also have a few stripped threads. Now if George would have asked? We may have had quite a thread. The 3 or 4 related to baskets and joining up with the rest of us nuts. Charlie gave you directions on where to go. RickO etc. where not to go at least not with the wife. Hey advice is us. Mati what is this older "Vert" business. I resemble the description and would prefer "More Experienced" :) Bill |
| Bill Brayford |
| Bill, A fitting conclusion to an enlightening and entertaining thread! Jim |
| Jim Vandenberg |
This thread was discussed between 18/03/2003 and 22/03/2003
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