Welcome to our Site for MG, Triumph and Austin-Healey Car Information.
Triumph TR6 - Head Removal - ARRGGH!
|OK, I've read about the rope-in-the-cylinders trick for popping the head. But I have a concern that will bend or break something. Any other ideas? I bumped the engine over with the plugs installed (all rocker gear removed) and that didn't work. Is there a lever point that I can use without damaging the deck?|
As a last resort, I guess I could remove the head studs from the block. But I noticed there isn't enough thread available for both the head nut and a jam nut. Do I simply use 2 jam nuts?
Before you try the rope trick, have one person turn the engine over, and smack the head with a rubber mallet. See if the combination of compression and impact will break the seal. (Maybe your compression is THAT LOW!!!)
Regarding the rope trick, put the rope in the No. 1 cylinder. That will put leverage on the end of the head to break the seal. Due to the softness of the rope, no damage should occur.
|I had good success with the rope trick but did have to remove all the studs. If you leave the studs in, the head needs to go straight up to break free. The rope trick or many other ways to break it loose require leverage, and that means forcing it up at an angle. I poured penetrating oil down the studs and let them sit for a day. I did end up using vice grips on some of the stubborn studs and then just replaced them.|
|I'm not trying to be a wise guy - of course you left the plugs in when you tried to bump the head off, eh?|
You could also try a variation of the "rope trick" and turn the crank pulley by the bolt. That would mean a fairly good sized bar, though.
|Thanks all. I'll try your other suggestions next.|
|When I had to remove the head on my TR6 this summer, while recovering from injuries suffered in a fall off a ladder, I had to get creative to compensate for my limited physical capabilities. I don't recall the exact details now, but I used a small bottle jack (about 1 - 1 1/2 ton) to get it off. I wedged the bottom of the jack onto the motor mount, and looped a piece of chain around the top, the chain bolted soemwhere to the head (don't remember exactly where, but it should be pretty obvious if you have the engine in front of you). Just a stroke or two and the head pulled loose with no sweat.|
Once the head was loose, I used pieces of wood and a pry bar to jack it up off the head bolts, a little at a time, working from one end and then the other, inserting more sticks of wood as I went (always keeping a piece of wood between the head and the pry bar to prevent damage). I had to repeat this jacking until the head cleared the head bolts, but had I not been injured, I could have lifted it off as soon as I had pried it enough to get my fingers under it.
|That sounds encouraging Dan; thanks for your post. I'm having trouble visualizing what you did though (my engine is in the car). Could you please provide more detail?|
I'll try, if my memory still works. I just set the bottle jack down on the motor mount, sorta leaning against the engine, with the plunger pointing up. I fastened a short piece of chain to the head, using bolts on the head (but I can't remember where now, and I'm away from the car so I can't check). I then layed the chain over the plunger of the bottle jack. If I remember correctly, I had to hold the chain in place by hand to keep it from slipping. It didn't take lot of pressure from the jack to break the head loose.
Once the head was loose, I inserted pairs of wood wedges (these can be bought ready made from Lowes pretty cheaply) at each end of the head, and drove them in, in pairs, until the head was raised enough to get a pry bar under it. Once the pry bar was under it, I just pryed on each end, a little at a time, slipping wood blocks under the head to keep it from slipping back as I pryed on the other end. I then repeated this until the head cleared the bolts, and I could lift it off. If your arms and hands work (mine didn't at the time), you can just lift the head off as soon as you can get your fingers under it, without having to go through the prying sequence.
Hope this helps, but I can't be more specific because I've forgotten the details, and I'm not near the car to refresh my memory.
|Here's another tidbit - the engine has the lifting lugs for chain attachment front & back. You won't be able to get the head off with the studs in place unless the back one is removed (on my car, anyway). Two bolts, I think.|
|Brent is going down the same path I planned on offering up as an alternative. An engine hoist or block and tackle rig has been used before to remove stubborn cylinder heads. As also suggested, give those studs a good soaking as part of the endeavor.|
Dan Masters, seeing that you are in Atlanta area (for now), if you get bored with your official reason for being here, would you be interested in a little shop break? Say maybe some Thursday evening over Chamblee way, a couple of miles inside 285 off Peachtree Industrial Blvd (yea, yet another road around here with Peachtree in the name and there are two Waffle Houses just down the street too).
Thanks for the invitation, but I'm back in Alcoa now. Just got back a few minutes ago.
I'll try to get out to the garage tomorrow and see if I can provide any more details. I'll be getting a few things in order, and then heading out for Michigan on Thursday, but I think I can find some time to see if I can recreate what I did.
|Brent--I looked at the rear hoist eye on the engine; it's bolted to the block. Why would this prevent removing the head?|
|The bracket on mine is bent and interfers with taking the head off - not breaking it loose, though.|
I took a look today, and it appears that what I did was place the jack on the engine mount pad on the manifold side of the engine, with the chain fastened to the head with bolts in the manifold mounting holes. All it takes is a small bit of movement to break the head loose.
BTW, the bottle jack that I used was a 2 ton unit.
|Thanks Dan. I'll give it a try.|
|Rick- I had to soak the studs for a couple of days with lots of liquid. I then used another nut to remove the studs that would come out. I think I pounded on them quite a bit. I wasn't concerned about doing a number to them as I planned on replacing them with ARP studs anyway. try some heat.|
|Let me as this question:|
Is the problem with removing the head due to it being stuck to the gasket, or is the problem due to corrosion where the studs pass through the head?
Bob (also suffering from internal corrosion - (mine, not the car's!)
|I had my head off last spring (twice, but that's another story) and also had to pry it up millimeter by millimeter. Not real difficult, just time consuming. I used (wait for it) a goose neck pry bar.|
It was corrosion on the studs that was holding things up. They were actually reasonably clean, but there are a lot of them and a little bit on each adds up. After I cleaned them up on the wire wheel they looked perfect so I re-used them. When I took the head off the second tile it lifted off without a hitch.
I remember thinking how much easier it would have been if I had just taken the studs out in the first place, or at least as many as would come out without a fight.
|A. J. Koschinsky|
|I don't know whether it's a stuck gasket or the studs. Probably the studs since the ones on the manifold side appear rusty (rocker side is obviously well oiled obviously). The head was last removed a couple of years ago.|
I don't know how I can remove the studs since there isn't enough thread available for the regular and jam nuts. Is it OK to use 2 jam nuts on each stud?
|Shame on you Tony.|
|Rick- Have you removed the valve train or is it going to stay put? I don't remember a problem with 2 nuts but it was a year and a half ago.|
|Hi Don. Yep, rocker gear is out and the 14 head stud nuts removed. I'm letting the studs soak in PB Blaster all week and will make another lift attempt this weekend.|
|Don't despair! When I removed my head, first time in 30 years, from a totally frozen engine that had sat for 10 years w/ water in it from a blown gasket, I really ezpected the worst. After removing all nuts and dowsing w/ a penetrant, looked all around the block for anywhere and anything to pry against. Took a little courage, but I figured 'what to lose' at this point.Without much hope, I pried, and she broke free.There are a couple of spots where there is the tiniest ledge w/ something sturdy nearby to pry against.|
I used Dans and Peter Gs method of removal.
"There are a couple of spots where there is the tiniest ledge w/ something sturdy nearby to pry against." This will break the "seal". Then from Dans page, many HARD wood wedges located all around the head. Obviously the head must come up/off "square" if the studs are in place. After the first set of wedges raised it up, I added a second wedge to each wedge and raised it some more. Just keep adding the wedges. One nice thing about this is the wood will not damage the block or head. Once the head is off the studs will come out and new ones get installed.
Good luck Rick
|Thanks for the encouraging words folks. I'll be at it tomorrow AM with along with 'Click and Clack' on NPR.|
|Head is off. If it weren't for the many feet of nylon rope in cyls 1 & 6 it wouldn't have happened. BUT I could only remove 10 of the 12 lifters because 2 of them can't be pulled above their bores to grab with pliers. Do you suppose their faces are hammered so I'll have to drop the pan and retrieve from underneath? The 10 lifters that are out look fine.|
|Try lifting them with one of these magnetic gizmos you get for retrieving things from down the sides of engines|
This thread was discussed between 19/01/2004 and 02/02/2004
Triumph TR6 index
This thread is from the archives. Join the live Triumph TR6 BBS now