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Triumph TR6 - How much HP & Torque?
| Hello All! I have been reading the BBS for sometime now. I don't yet own a TR6 but am planning on buying one next Spring ( <--- Likes to pay for things up front - No depts are good depts). I am just wondering how much HP & Torque we can squeeze out of the 2.5. I am planning on Super Charging and as many mods as possible ( Money isn't really an issue, with in reason). Is it realistic to consider around 220HP and around the same for Torque? Thanks Guys and Gals JT |
| JT |
| Whoa! Money isn't an issue? You'll find supercharging means fewer other mods are required (to the engine). So sit back and get ready... |
| Brent B |
| Paeco builds them with 258 HP! All it takes is $$. Tim |
| Tim Brand |
| JT, get ready is right. I am working on supercharging my 76 and have spent over 4k. I think another 1000 will be pretty easy as I am doing EFI as well. Hope to get 200-210 hp. |
| Gene Holtzclaw |
| Thanks for the response guys. So there is hope for a powerful TR6 :-) LOL .... Its not that money isn't an issue..... I am just willing to spend a bit of money to get what I want. Tim, 258 HP? Is that for real...........WOW how much $$ ? Gene, 4k US eh! ....... so thats like hmmmmm 15k CDN .... lol ..*Joking* I have considered EFI ... but it seems really confusing to me......let me know how it goes for you. Brent, I can't wait for the day to come .... I have been researching the TR6 for ever now (so it seems anyways). My wife is beginnig to get worried ... sometimes it is all I talk about. lol JT |
| JT |
| JT The Paeco web address is www.paeco.com It's not very informative so get their catalog. With a core exchange it's $9800. That doesn't include all the other stuff like header, induction, etc. I doubt it's a very streetable motor either and has 13:1 + compression. 200 HP should be pretty easy to get and still have good street manners. Of course you could just drop in a 5.0 Ford! Tim |
| Tim Brand |
| "Of course you could just drop in a 5.0 Ford!" A LOT more power for a LOT less money! How does 350HP for $2500 - $5500 sound? That's streetable horsepower, btw. see http://www.britishv8.org and http://www.britishv8.org/may2003.pdf |
| Dan Masters |
| JT - Dan has a very good point. A small block V8 would be a kicker...much less complicated than supercharging. Or even a big block if I read Dan right. That's a great alternative. As far as Paeco - I heard very bad things about them on several news groups. I'd be wary. BB |
| Brent B |
| Yea, what Dr. Dan said. If you are really looking for lots of power, then there's no replacement for displacement. To get big numbers out of TR6 motor means building a grenade. Grenades are not street friendly. For a normally aspirated TR6 motor, even getting 200 hp would be a stretch for something that is truly streetable. The compression would still need to be up in about the 11:1 range, so running pump gas is out. The cam would have to be such that it didn't really start making power until something in the 4500-5000 range, so the build and balance is critical as high RPM would be required. Not something an undersquare engine such as that in a TR6 likes as piston speeds go incredibly high and the big rotating masses get whippy. Realistically, probably about the most you are looking at in a streetable engine (run pump gas, makes power at reasonable RPM, etc) is in the 160 to 180 range. USe a compression ratio of about 9.5:1, a cam more or less along the lines of an 265 to 280 duration and about .270" lift at the lobe. Basically here is the way a power curve goes with a hotter cam: 1) not as much power in lower RPM range, 2) matches power somewhere along the power curve with the milder cam, 3) makes more power as RPM increases before dropping off. The problem is that for the really hot cams that help make lots of power is that the RPM range is so high that is not really usable on the street. In other an otherwise similarly set up engine, the described cam, sure enough, makes less power than using a stock TR6 carb cam (early) until about 3000-3500 RPM, crosses over and makes more power and will start falling off about 6000-6500 rpm. Nice usable power for a street motor. Belive it or not, the late TR6 cam (used in both carb and PI cars) works rather well for a street car. The Isky Z-19, Reed's XS266 and XS270 (marginally hotter than the XS266), APT's TH26N and TH56N and the early TR6 PI cam also fit the bill. The Triumph S-2 cam is a little hotter still and is probably about as hot as you want to go in a street car. |
| SteveP |
| Ya know, I'd go the Ford route if there was an easy way to have a bullit proof rear end and if engine/tranny conversion mounts were available. I'm just not in any position to fabricate mounts. I think you loose a couple hundred lbs. in the deal too! The TR motor sure does have a sweet sound though doesn't it? As for paeco, I don't have any idea how their motors are - I just mentiond them for reference - but you never hear from the satisfied customers - it's the guy who blew up his motor that does all the squawking. Tim |
| Tim Brand |
| JT I have a stock TR6 and the motor is on it last legs I like the car but want more power as well so what to do? I have always liked the GM 4.3 litre v6 and I like the idea of staying as a 6 cyl. For much less money than is being talked about in some of the above threads you could install a 4.3 Vortec GM along with a suitable tranny from a rearwheel drive GM van or truck. The last few years of this engine have been over 200 HP stock. I am keeping my eye open for a fairly low mileage wreck that I can salvage. I have a 1991 Jimmy 4.3 with close to 350,000 KM, burns no oil and runs like new. Just another idea. Web site for GM engines is www.gmpartsdepot.com/store Ken in Thunder Bay |
| Ken Bittle |
| JT, My 74 TRV8 is the result of finding Dan Masters web site. Stock Ford 302 bored out a bit, mild(towing)cam, 220HP/260ft-lbs at the rear wheels. Very well behaved. I could easily get another 100HP out of it but what's the point. It is scary fast now! The acceleration is phenomenal.I did do some frame strengthening basicly a web of 2" angle iron and the stock rear end arches and hangers need reinforcing but I use the stock rear end with no problems.The Triumph rear end is a very tough unit, its the tinfoil holding it in place that is the weak spot. I restored the entire car at the same time and found it cost exactly the same to restore it with the V8 as it would have to remain stock. Good luck. Chris |
| Christopher Trace |
| I'd like to extend an invitation to you all to come to the British V8 convention in Grand Rapids, MI, August 14 - 15. There'll be a lot of V8 conversions there (mostly MGs but there should be a few Triumphs as well), and tons of expertise to share. Plus, we just plain have a good time at these conventions. Totally laid back, no competition, just a bunch of gear heads swapping lies and bench racing. See http://www.britishv8.org/2004BritishV8.htm for details. You can definately get by with the stock rear as long as you don't go too wild on the power and stay away from serious drag racing. When the factory was racing these car, I think they were running close to 200HP on the stock rear end. Another option is to use the rear suspension setup from a live axle TR4A and use a Ford 8.8" rear axle. Converting from the TR6 IRS to the TR4A live axle setup is pretty easy. Engine mounts? Take look at the Ford V8 article in the May 2003 V8 newsletter linked above, and see my article at http://www.britishv8.org/swaps/TR6ford.HTM You might also want to pick up a copy of Roger William's book on improving the TR6. He describes 3 TR250/6 V8 conversions. You can buy his book from the Triumph 6-Pack club at: http://www.6-pack.org/6pack/html/ Engine mounts for a Ford into a TR6 are a lot easier to make than for most other engine/car combinations. The GM V6 is a viable option, and there are companies working to provide kits and parts to put this engine in an MGB. These parts should work as well for a TR6. Check the links on the British V8 website for more information. I have no knowledge of the quality of Paeco products, but I can confidently gaurantee you won't be happy with a 285HP TR6 engine for street use, for the reasons listed by Steve P. Right now, there are no companies making a complete kit for installing a supercharger in a TR6, but I would not be surprised if Moss Moters is not working on one. If they do, that will be a hard to beat option. They have one for the MGB and will soon have one for the MGA, I believe. Making your own supercharger setup is not for the faint-hearted. Few of us have the skills, tools, and knowledge required for such a project, but if you do, it could be a very rewarding excercise. You might want to check the MGB Technical BBS (on this same website), under the thread "Moss supercharger" for some thoughts on supercharging vs engine swaps. Chris, I'm glad my web site was an inspiration to you - now if I can just get off my duff and finish my own! I also have a Ford 302 MGBGT conversion in progress; I just need to quit some of the other projects I'm into and concentrate on these two. Gene, I hope you are documenting your supercharger setup - that would make a great article for the V8 newsletter (we're not prejudist, any thing that makes more power is fair game). |
| Dan Masters |
| PAECO has an excellent compromise engine either on your core or their that'll turn out about 168 HP that seems to be an excellent trade-off of all the competing variables. I have not tried this yet but am giving it careful consideration when I get to that part of my restoration. PAECO is only 100 miles south of me and I've spoken to them several times. While I have no direct experience with their products, they certainly seem friendly and helpful. db |
| D R Baker |
| WOW! What to do.... what to do .... what.. to.. Do! :-O Well, I do have a 1990 Cougar XR7 5.0 HO sitting in my Driveway. Engine still runs well...........but needs to be freshened up. Wife has given me until the end of the month to get ride of it :-( I have thought about the v8 swap, but a part of me wanted to remain true to the TR by using the 2.5. I have to admit, I have alot of passion for cars (anything with a motor, really.) but I am not much of a mechanic, so I would need to hire some one to do most of the work. I hope this thread will remain active with new info. It is very apparent to me that I have a big decision to make. I have heard some really good things about the 2.5 and equally some bad things as well. All I do know is that know matter my choice, I have found a really good group of guys to help guide me with lots of experience. So to all of you......... A Great big Thanks! JT :-) |
| JT |
| "WOW! What to do.... what to do .... what.. to.. Do! :-O" That part of your question is easy to answer - you come to the V8 convention in Michigan next month! When you leave there, you'll either have made up your mind what you want to do, or you'll have so much more info that you'll be more undecided than ever. Either way, it will be a weekend well spent! |
| Dan Masters |
| I do have some direct and indirect experience with Paeco and it is mixed. First the indirect, I know a couple of people that have run their Stage I and SRE engines and they seem satisfied with them. I know a couple of people that have run their race engines and they were not happy with them. Now for direct experience. I have bought some components frm them and again, things are mixed. The undamped aluminum front pulley (warning, requires good engine balancing to use) from then that was a nice piece, then a friend turned around and bought one later and the workmanship wasn't as good as on the one I got. I got an aluminum flywheel from them that, well, let's just politely say that it was less than stellar. The surface finish and mismatch of the machining was not good at all. The geek in me said that this was not something to use as is, I see too many failed parts from poor machining. I spent a lot of time bench working it before even thinking about using it. I also performed a precipitation heat treat on it. It was fabricated from 2024-T351 plate material according to Paeco. The 2014/2024/2124 alloys are suceptible to stress corrosion cracking, especially in the short transverse direction (metal weenie way of saying through the plate thickness) when used in a T3x or T4x condition. I do not allow it on stuff at work, damned if I am going to use it that way as hunk of spinning mass next to my legs. The precipitation heat treat took it to -T851 condition, problem solved. By the way, be careful out there with 7000 series alloys that you see. They have a similar problem except it is the -T6x (precipitation heat treated conditions) where they develop the most strength. To get away from this, they must be overaged to a -T7x condition. There are different ones for different product forms and types of corrosion resistance. In both cases, the thicker you go, the higher the potential for problem. The break point we use is .080". These days, I think most people are making their aluminum flywheels from 6061-T651. It is not as strong as the other materials above, so they make them a bit beefier. The advantage that it has is that is a well behaved and rather corrosion resisitant aluminum, not necessarily a bad trade off IMHO. The other stuff I have gotten from Paeco are items that they distribute rather than make. On those, they are just another supplier. Also bear in mind that my own dealings with them were several years ago. |
| SteveP |
| This is a great thread. The biggest problem I had on my v-8 conversion was being treated like a red headed step child at meets. The British cars shows had very few people that appreciated your efforts and the cruise-in people figured that I should have just built a Camaro or Mustang. We love our cars and the lie swapping that goes along with it. I don't like Fords. However, the Ford engine fits the engine bay much better. The GM conversion as I did runs into some serious interference problems with exhaust, steering rack, bell housing, starter,... you get the idea. One of the things I hope to do to my car once I get the s/c project out of the way is to convert the rear to Richard Good's setup for the Nissan 300ZX rear. 4:08 gear, posi, AND bolts in!! Too cool. Dan, I wish I were better at documenting my projects but I have taken pictures along the way. Hope to do much more when I get it completely fabbed and discribe it piece by piece as it goes back together. |
| Gene Holtzclaw |
| For what its worth - I recently bought a 74.5 TR6 after driving about 15 of them. The one I bought has a hot "rally" cam in it - which i think is near the higher end of hottness, but not all the way. As mentioned earlier in the thread, I have little power below 2500 RPMS, so much so that I need to rev the engine before putting it into first to prevent a stall. And pulling into parking spaces is a loud event. However, once I get rolling and cross 3000-3500 RPMs my power really kicks in - I've been told that it makes 125-130hp at those revs - but have never put it on a dyno to confirm this. It certainly has a lot more high end UMPH than the other 15 TR6s I drove during my search. I can easily squeal my tires from a stand still or going around a corner if I get my revs up 3000+ before quickly slipping my clutch - the car takes off like a rocket. If its pure power you want - drop in the v8. If its staying true to the union jack - maybe try a hot cam to get that extra step out of the gate. just my thoughts from a huble tr6 owner of only 5 months. Austin PS - is it just me, or did you guys have to add a high-speed panty remover switch for your windshield wipers as well? Everytime I go out in my car, it seems like its raining panties. |
| Austin Brown |
| Austin: Check out the thread re old guys drive TR6s. Being in the "age" I have never had to use the panty remover option, however I can always dream! JT if you decide not to use the HO cougar and you happen to be looking to sell it I have a project that powerplant and tranny would be very nice in. Ken |
| Ken Bittle |
| Great thread! The problem I have is my experience with what I call "the snowball effect" - where you modify one thing and that leads to another necessary mod, and on and on. A big concern for me is that the TR frame is, ahem, shall we say, less than rigid. Look what happens to our doors when we jack it up! Double the torque with grippy tires and it's pretzle time! To do it right, I'd want to do a frame off job and box in the frame rails along with adding additional stiffeners like Chris Trace did. The Nissan diff. from Richard Goode is really cool, but knowing my passion for HP, something beefier might be necessary. I saw a TR6/V8 once that supposedly had a Corvette diff in the back. If I had deep pockets, I go with a narrowed 9" Ford, 4 link suspension, 400 hp 5.0, and a 5 speed. Then the performance would match it's sexy lines! Sigh, while it's nice to dream, I'll be sticking with the TR motor and shooting for 150 hp. Tim |
| Tim Brand |
| "A big concern for me is that the TR frame is, ahem, shall we say, less than rigid." Tim, Check out Ted Lathrop's TR6 frame: http://www.britishv8.org/swaps/tr6350.htm When I jacked up the right front of his car, much to my surprise the left front wheel was off the ground as much as the right! This is one rigid frame, with a 4-link, narrowed Ford 9" axle. |
| Dan Masters |
| Dan, the weekend in Michigan sounds great. Hopefully I can make it. Does it matter that I dont have a TR6? Maybe you could send me some more detials on it? ................. I have come to realize....I have never even sat in a TR6. LOL, I have been looking and reading about them online for so long now, it "feels" like I own one. Ken, My wife would be tickled pink if someone took the Coug away. Money talks.....I will be fair if you will :-) Give me an offer! Austin, The cam sounds like it could be an option.... who knows... I might be surprised what 130 hp feels like in a LBC. JT p.s I am going away for a week. Yeah! ..... not that anyone really cares... Take care all. |
| JT |
| JT, It doesn't matter what you are driving, everyone is welcome. I'm ashamed to admit it, but I'll be driving a Toyota - none of my Triumphs or MGs are running right now. For details on the meet and an entry form, go to http://www.britishv8.org/index2.htm and click on the 2004 V8 meet button. There'll be at least one Chevy 350 powered TR6 there, and I expect a couple of Ford powered TR6s as well. I can guarantee you a ride in a TR6, and maybe even the chance to drive one. If not a TR6, at least an MGB/V8. If you are seriously thinking about getting more power in a TR6, this would be the best chance you'll have until next year to get the info you need to help you choose. Next year, the V8 meet will be in Terre Haute, IN, and in 2006, it will be back here again in TN. (Can you say "The Dragon"? You haven't really driven your TR6 until you've tried to conquer the DRAGON!) |
| Dan Masters |
| Dan, Ted's TR sure is nicely done. Look how he's reinforced that frame however. That's how it should be done if you're gonna inject big HP and torque into one of these little cars. Now granted, the TR6 isn't a flexi flyer like the old Diamler's were - their doors would open up under hard cornering - but I'd think modern tires and big power sure could be a problem with a stock frame. Sigh, if only I had some cubic dollars. A fire breathing, Cobra chasing LBC. Actually I was about to build one of these www.factoryfive.com but I won't make the time or $$ commitment to dive into another project. Besides my little TR6 sure is pretty cool and fun just the way it is. Don't get me wrong, I think a V8 in a TR6 is an excellent idea and I dearly wish I could build one. Tim |
| Tim Brand |
| While a V8 powered TR has a high "cool" factor, I believe you'd find your dollars better spent by purchasing a Corvette instead. You can get at '90 to '94 Corvette for $12K to $16K, depending on condition an mileage. An '84 to '87 Corvette can be had for as little as $7500, but will usually need cosmetic work, interior leater, and a paint job, as well as having 90+k miles. My wife's Corvette ('94, LT-1, 300 hp, 330 lb-ft, 6 speed), is immaculate, with only about 50k miles on it, and would probably retail at only about $15K to $16K. Or, if you want something that you can work on all the time, get a Porsche - you'll find that dollars just evaporate. Bob - stock 6-cyl '73 TR6. |
| R.C. Blair |
| "While a V8 powered TR has a high "cool" factor, I believe you'd find your dollars better spent by purchasing a Corvette instead." That's assuming that how well our dollars are spent is of concern. I didn't buy a Corvette because I didn't want a Corvette. I wanted a TR6 with a V8. No praticality involved, just a wish fulfillment. I like my TR6 a lot; I don't like Corvettes at all. Not that there's anything wrong with Corvettes, I just don't like them. Nor do I want a Porsche, even though I do enjoy working on my cars. I want my TR6, but I want it with a V8, and that's exactly what I'm going to have. The opinions/preferences of others is of no concern whatever. Technical advice is appreciated, philosphical advice is not needed. |
| Dan Masters |
| I think I just read a temper tantrum. Ouch. No offense intended. |
| R.C. Blair |
| Not that it is needed or maybe even wanted, but my opinion follows Dan's. I grew up working on Corvettes as my father owned a Corvette repair shop. I met more nuts than I can count and finally gave up on the whole crowd. I have owned at least 15 Corvettes but when it gets to the point where Bloomington had more 435hp 67 Vettes registered than GM ever built, something has gone wrong. Anybody can buy a common sports car, but it takes guts and work to have that stand alone vehicle that you can be proud of. |
| Gene Holtzclaw |
| RC, No, it wasn't meant as a temper tantrum - if it sounded that way, my apologies. |
| Dan Masters |
| Again - no offense intended, nor taken. You are free to do as you wish with both your car and money. I like the inline 6 in a TR6, you like the V8. Both of those are our personal preferances. My point was, to fully appreciate the additional engine size and power, there is a lot more to be done than just an engine swap. A major concern is the rest of the drive train, a rather weak front suspension, and a highly flexible frame, not to mention the brakes. To do it properly, this is a major body-off project, such as the handmade tubular chassis and Ford 9-inch rear end. Even "just" boxing the existing frame rails requires expertise in welding, plus, as you make a structure more rigid, additional stress is applied to connections, which can fail with spectacular results. Also, the "enjoyment" factor can decrease when you have a engine with over twice the torque unde the hood because it will greatly change the driveability of the car (again, this is my perspective, you may feel differently). I have owned a TR6 since 1973, and I just like the way they drive stock, or slightly modified. Re: the Corvette crowd - yes, there are a lot of people who are creating "imposter" cars. But you usually don't see them at actual sports car events, as they are usually at hot rod events (and this is not a slam at hot rods either). Bob (by the way, I was the enginner who designed the vertical profile for the the roadracing track built in 2002 for the Washington D.C. Grand Prix (American Le Manns Series)) |
| Bob.Blair |
| Well gents that is one frank and lively discussion about the merrits of fast TR's and Corvettes, and indeed cuts deep into the core of the sports car hobby and the way we view the world of automobiles. What I love about the TR6 is that at first glance I immediatly love looking at the car from every angle. And today really enjoy the journey toward building a "so called perfect TR6". It is such a labour of love, frustration, resignation, rejuvination. And most importantly of all, a journey that not everyone can take. Only those that have the knowlege (or 40 grand) can take that journey so it's an exclusive club. What is the perfect TR6? It throws you back in the seat, it's loud, it tracks true and straight and it looks carved and chisled and it's rust free. It has the modern components and you understand every nut and bolt. When something goes wrong, you are upset becuase you'v been in there before. The Corvette on the other hand is a car you can turn the key and haul complete ass in a world class sports car. Take the time to read the review of the 1984 Corvette. It was a world beater. Top speed of 150 mph, skid pad of .9 g and zero to sixty at under 7 seconds. General Motors had kicked Ferrari, Porsche and all the other gang with this car and if you'v ever driven it you have to admit it was a blast and guess what; you don't have to spend 20 grand to re-engineer the car to go fast. But today, the vette is so perfect that you are a potato behind the wheel at anything less than huge velocity. Are you really driving a vette today or are you sitting there with your finger tips on the steering wheel. I mean come on man - these new cars drive themselves. You dissagree then let me make my argument. Look at F1 15 years ago. Drivers would be managing a 1200 lb car in drift mode at 170 mpg around those high speed corners. Today the car is firmly planted - glued to the ground. The driver is almost a passenger now. That is the vette now. In fact I drive my 91 Legend on the freeway to work each and every day at over one hundred MPH. And it's like nothing. Drive your TR6 at 110 mph tomorow and check out your heart rate man. All good. JP 73 5speed. |
| John Parfitt |
| I passed the 100mph threshold my first time this weekend. It wasn't a matter of check your heart rate - it was check your underwear! I was doing that speed on hilly country road (was more than triple speed limit) - I actually slowed down at the apex of a couple hills for fear of leaving the ground. white knuckles, brown shorts all the way baby! |
| Austin T. Brown |
| Ive been told opinions are like belly buttons (or other orifices) everyones got one, and after spending far too much time recearching 6's and tearing a few down and rebuilding mine for several years, heres what Ive learned. And most of this supports whats been said here. The TR6 a very "sexy" looking car, fun to drive but a little anemic in power. The engine can be built up for more power but has limits due to design characteristics. Frame is pressed and bend sheet metal, or little better. The diff is ok up to about 200 hp, but the rear hubs are weak. There are those out there who can attest to this after experiencing roll overs. Its been said ther are old racers, and old hubs, but no old racers with old hubs (or something like that LOL) OK after all that, I still am sinking about 3G's+ into the origional motor, new pistons, rods, fully balanced, roller top end, more than that in body and aint, and all the new suspension bits and pieces. Why? Because this particular car has a near perfect frame, and the tub was quite good, so I wanted to keep it mostly "Union Jack" That said, I am considering building a second one. This one with a 5.0 motor. But for safety, building a 2 x 3 steel frame, mustang front and rear for strength. Those that want to have fun in theirs, consider some modifications for reliability and safety. Check out the diff mounting points, The mounting pins usually tear where they meet the cross memeber. Consider boxing in the rear cross members for increased stregnth and rigidity. Sometimes the upper spring perches tear at the lower edges, this can be strengthened with an approx 2 x 5 peice of steel welded in place. Some recent problems have arisen form tube shock conversions. The cross over piece has torn away from the frame rails. Probably due to the new shocks having harder dampening rates, and stressing the frame. Even with a good frame, consider these, it might reduce oop's later. |
| Ken Jackson |
| JT - if you want the power of a V8 but not the weight and handling issues, why not a Rover V8. Loose 100 pounds from the front end (actually improving the handling) and power from 200 to 300 HP depending upon your budget. Check out my site at http://www.v8triumph.com for details on how I did this on my TR4A solid axle car. The same conversion issues would apply to a TR6. I am surprised that this conversion is not more popular as it transforms the car. With a Crowler cam from D&D, the car can be driven below 4000 and short shifted around town keeping up with almost anything on the road. If your rev it up over 4000, it becomes a fire breathing beast, shifting at 6000 or 6500! The engine with a 500 CFM 4 barrel clears the stock hood and the V8 cannot be detected (except from the sound). You can easily build a 3.5 Rover with 225 HP and 230 torque for 4 grand ( you do the labor) including a T5 transmission. Keep it British (sort of), lose some weight and double the power, what is not to like? |
| Dave Herr |
| Hi Dave, Thanks for the link. I am checking it out as I type. I am curious to know how easily I am able to get my hands on a Rover engine here in Ontario. Has anyone in this area gone this route? JT :-) |
| JT |
| I bought one of the 62 Olds Cutlass' with the aluminum v-8, trashed the car and put the engine along with a T-5 trans in a MGB. I rebuilt that engine for a little over $1200 as I found it is much cheaper than the Rover engine on parts. They can be bought on e-bay very reasonably. That car was absolutely a blast to drive, very well balanced.(engine 40lbs lighter than the 4 cyl). |
| Gene Holtzclaw |
| http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7912986780&category=33616&sspagename=WDVW |
| Gene Holtzclaw |
| Isn't the Rover engine originally of US manufacture (American Motors or Buick?) - the molds were sold to Rover? Someone, please refresh my memory. |
| Bob Blair |
| Yes. The Pontiac, Olds and Buick motors have rope seals vs. neoprene for starters. |
| Gene Holtzclaw |
| I am lucky enough to have 2 frames... I am pondering if i should use my stock frame for now and then build up the other with a v8 of if since i have all apart now just take the extra time that is needed and do an 8 now. If i do an 8 should i use a ford 302 or go with a chevy 305? I have checked out www.britishv8.org alot. they both seem to be common. I just want to make this car rocket off the line but not get it so out of control that it is nuts. I can get both the 302 and 305 free.. or damn near close. I am open for suggestions. Rob |
| Robert Ring |
| Just finishing up a tr6 v8 conversion. I am using an old ford 289 motor with extreme modifications. I can't wait to take it on the road. I have built many high performance tr motors. The last one I built had a cam with a 485 advertised lift and a 302% duration. I put tricked out webers on it and it held up quite well for about 2 years until I split a forged crank in half. I think the six motor has enormous potential if you have the money and proper contacts to build them. I am only going to a v8 because I can get more bang for the buck. This is an excellent thread |
| Ed |
| I'd go with the Ford if it were me. It's a little narrower so the exhaust is a slightly easier fit and the dist. is in the front so you can get more engine set back. How it goes off the line is dependent on your rear suspension setup. I'd do a 9" ford with a 4 link, coil overs, and a good posi. Bench racing sure is fun huh?! Tim |
| Tim Brand |
| "If i do an 8 should i use a ford 302 or go with a chevy 305?" Rob, Remove the "if" and replace it with a "when" I just got back home last night from the 2004 British V8 conversion convention in Michigan - had a great time, you all should have been there! There is more good, solid, accurate engine swap information passed around at one of these meets than you'll get in a year on the BBS. Plus, you get to look at the cars, and ask your questions directly to the owner. The next meet will be in Terre Haute, IN, in June of next year. See http://www.britishv8.org for more info. There were two TR6s there, sitting side by side. One had a Chevy 350 and the other had a Ford 302. Both installations were well done, and both engines fit into the TR6 engine compartment with no real trouble. Installing either engine requires about the same amount of work, and about the same amount of cutting. The Chevy 350 weighs anywhere from 70 to 100 pounds more than the Ford 302, depending on what source you are using. I have never weighed a Chevy engine, but I have weighed both the 302 and the TR6 engines. The Ford 302 with iron heads weighs only 15 pounds more than the TR6 engine. Aluminum heads knock off 50 pounds. A Chevy engine will cost you less than a Ford for the same horsepower. Even though the Chevy engine weighs a lot more than the TR6, it doesn't have much of an impact on handling. I have driven the Chevy powered TR6 mentioned above for many miles, on many different types of roads, and it drove better than stock (of course, it has had many suspension improvements made to it). Given that the Ford engine weighs either less or only 15 pounds more, the stock TR6 handling and braking is not changed at all by the Ford installation. Given the choice, I would go with the Ford. In fact, I did! |
| Dan Masters |
| Robert, My TRV8 is the Ford V8 TR that Dan just mentioned and have been driving it now for about three years. It is a lot of fun. Personally I didn't want that extra 100 lbs or more making the nose dive down everytime I braked or went into a corner. ( The chevy TR that Dan mentions is a remarkable car built by a professional fabricator) I am just a backyard mechanic that followed Dan's direction. It takes about a year to work the bugs out but have not had a single breakdown in two years. Good luck, Chris |
| Christopher Trace |
| One of my main problems with putting the Chevy V-8 in was exhaust. I'm not a Ford fan, but I believe that would be the wat to go. Or... how about one of these new 6 cyl. Chevrolets with 265+ hp stock. Out of a blazer or? Hmmm... |
| Gene Holtzclaw |
| "Or... how about one of these new 6 cyl. Chevrolets with 265+ hp stock. Out of a blazer or? Hmmm..." That would certainly be a good choice. It should eliminate a lot of required cutting and fabrication as compared to a V8. I'm assuming it would also weigh a lot less than either of the two V8s mentioned. Nevertheless, I'm a V8 fan at heart, and I just can't get away from the idea of a V8. But then I'm an OF, still living in the past! In general, though, a larger displacement engine producing the same horsepower is "better" than a smaller displacement engine. If you are going to push the HP output of a 6 cylinder engine up to the same point as a hot V8, say 350 or more, the V8 will be a bit more docile in traffic than the V6. 265HP is more than enough though. Until you drive one with 375HP, that is! I have, and I'm hooked! The option are endless. Personal preferences rule! Surely someone, somewhere, has installed one of these V6 engines in a TR6. Anyone know of any? Chris, You can be proud of your V8 TR6 - you did a good job! |
| Dan Masters |
| Well i have done it, I have purchased a v8. it is an aluminum block and head buick 215 c/i. I decided to go with this because well it was cheap!!! $25.00 I know i need to rebuild it, but hey what good thing isn't worht the wait. I decided on this eng. because it is aluminum, and it sould dissapate the heat rather well. hopefully i can keep the stock radiator (i wish) thought you may like an update. oh if anyone knows of the website that is for rover v8 conversions. i would like to know the address. i have seen it before i just cant remember the site. |
| Robert Ring |
| Robert, Congratulations! The first thing you need to do is subscribe to the British V8 Newsletter. You can find info on this at http://www.britishv8.org You will also find a lot of good info about swapping engines into little British cars here as well. The other first thing you need to do is get to know Dan LaGrou of D&D Fabrications. Dan probably knows more about that engine and its use in our cars than anyone on the planet. He also sells a bunch of goodies you're going to need for that swap. |
| Dan Masters |
| ooops! I forgot to give contact info for Dan. He can be found at http://www.aluminumv8.com |
| Dan Masters |
| Not meaning to rain on your parade but if your going to all the effort to undertake an engine swap project, why use an engine that produces such little horsepower? What about the Rover 4.0 litre? John Parfitt 73 5 Speed. |
| John Parfitt |
This thread was discussed between 13/07/2004 and 26/08/2004
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